In January of this year, I was preparing to teach a video poker class at the South Point. As is my custom, once I got set up, I went around to chat with the students before the class began.
One lady I had never seen before seemed to be a friend of a frequent student. She told me her name and proclaimed, “I hate Stations!”
I asked her why she felt that way.
“They removed Full Pay Deuces Wild!” was the answer.
“Yes,” I said, “that game has been in and out of Las Vegas casinos for decades. It may rise again before too long. I just don’t know.”
The game returns 100.76% with proper play and has a fairly simple strategy. In recent years it has only been available for single-line quarters or nickels. Often, casinos punish players for playing it by requiring more coin-in to earn a slot club point, excluding the machines from certain multipliers, or, if players continue to play the game, giving those players no mailer at all.
Still, fast players can make $10 or so an hour with no jackpot larger than $1,000 and it’s a relatively easy way to be a gambling winner. This particular lady was dressed nicely. There was no way she was surviving on $10 an hour. But she liked the supplemental income and liked to think of herself as a winning player.
I asked her if any other video poker game caught her eye and she said that FPDW was the only game she knew. That was why she was in the class for NSU Deuces Wild to see if she could make the transition.
I wished her good luck and went to talk to somebody else.
This same kind of thing has happened to me in excess of 500 times in my video poker career. Casinos change the pay schedule, the slot club, and/or one or more promotions to make a game not so attractive. And sometimes they restrict me in one way or another.
While I’m not pleased by these things, these are just “welcome to my world” events. I expect it to happen at least 10 times in 2021. I won’t know exactly how many until they actually happen, and I don’t know at which casinos.
So, when this does happen, my next step is to evaluate what I feel is my next-best option. Proclaiming my hatred for something is not a productive use of time. Sometimes there are more decent plays than I have time to play. In that situation, I just play my other regular games a bit more.
I also use this as an incentive to go scouting. Including small bars, there are lots of places I haven’t been in recently. It’s time to take another look. I’ve found gold mines in small places in the past. Maybe I can again.
Until a few years ago, I avoided playing progressives. But as pickings grew slim among non-progressive games, I took a second look. I’ve written about this previously.
I only know so many games, but I can find out on videopoker.com or wizardofodds.com the return on most games I find. If it returns enough, and the game can be learned with existing software, I’ll take the time to learn it. On occasion, I’ve even hired a computer programmer to create a strategy for me.
To be sure, I can learn a new video poker game faster than most others can. I’ve done it more than one hundred times in the past and have a better overall grasp of the concepts than most others do. Still, even if you’re starting out from scratch, you can do it too. It may take you a week or three longer, but it’s doable with study.
I talk to some of my player friends to find new games. Some are willing to share with me because they know I’ll share with them. Some believe they owe me from things I’ve shared with them in the past. It doesn’t always work, but this way, I often find a lead I probably wouldn’t find by myself.
It’s another reason to build a network of friends who play games similar to what you play. There is strength in numbers. The group knows more than the individual members do. You need to keep your group limited to people who’ll contribute what they learn. You don’t need somebody who’s only a taker and never a giver.
Finally, the day may come when you can no longer find acceptable games. For me, that’s the day I give up video poker gambling. Others may still want to play because of the enjoyment factor, but not me.
I’ve already started my retirement, so to speak. I’m into Improv and storytelling. This is more of a reaction to COVID than the lack of games, but the net result is similar.
I understand that ladies thinking, no matter how much money you have, if you gamble and consistently lose, you are doing it either out of addiction, or to kill time. I play live poker, I am results driven, I keep track of every dime I spend, and I constantly brainstorm strategies to get better. You are 100% correct Bob, I seek out peers to go over my game, others that play poker to win, I have learned a lot, nobody has a monopoly on knowledge. When I play video poker I try my best to use sound strategy, but since I play around once a year for two days, I likely make plays that pros scoff at. The best advice I can give is to never be lazy at anything you do, losers play lazy, the casinos thrive on lazy players, live poker players make bank on lazy people… And I love Station casinos, Red Rock and Green Valley are two places I hit almost every Vegas trip I make, they have nice video poker in reasonable non-smoking sections, and great poker rooms…
Stations has decimated their overall VP. They now require $2 per point and so the 10X points days are actually only worth 0.5%. I think they also nixed the 3x at any time for higher tier players. At the same time, they totally trashed my offers, which as an out of town guest, were sufficient to make the play a nice addition to my travels. While driving me away is probably a good move on their part, their regular ploppies who play 9/6DDB and keno are not going to be happy. Removing FPDW, on the other hand, just makes sense. Those games see a ton of play from folks who play correctly. They may only make $10 an hour (if they play very fast), but over time, that adds up and the casinos receive very little in return, though probably some of those folks manage to visit the bingo hall
What really surprised me was that Station’s made all these changes during COVID. The LAST thing they need is to drive off customers when the number of customers is clearly not what it used to be.
Station has made a conscious decision to take away as much as it can. For the first time ever, they refused to be a part of LVA’s Member Rewards Program, because they’re “not giving anything away anymore.” No kidding. They were stand-up about talking to me and explaining their stance, but that was their reason for not participating on any level. They wouldn’t even do a free drink at the bar. Why take this tack while in the jaws of the pandemic, which is the precise time that you’d expect them to be promoting more? Because they’ve been seduced by the results of their reopening, when far fewer customers came in, but their win-per-player was off the charts compared to normal. Of course it was — only the hardcore gamblers ventured out then. So the casino can cut back expenses and profit from these players. But how long will that last? I’m sure I’ll be accused of sour grapes here, but that’s not the reality — almost everyplace else is back in Member Rewards and most of what we had from Station was buffets that aren’t available anyway, so no damage done. But their position stunned me. We’ll see how it works out, but we won’t ignore or sugarcoat what they’re doing.
Good information. Our last visit to the Palms in February 2019, we were told we could no longer come in to the VIP lounge. We only went in to meet our host. The young lady called her an said we could meet her at the front desk. We had been staying at the Palms for over 50 visits. The host told us we where no longer qualified to get upgrades. Phew, they kicked out seniors with a fat 401k. We will stay at South Point. PS the wife got a dealt Royal on ten play ten cent VP. She took the money and we went back to Texas.
Not only are they not giving anything away, they’re taking our rewards points! We got a letter from Bob Finch, Chief Operating Officer, telling us our points will expire on December 31st. We come out every year for a month. Our trip was scheduled for the end of May. Casinos were shutdown until June 4th. We waited, hoping the casinos would reopen, until the last minute to cancel our house rental so we could get that deposit back. Called Stations after we got their letter to explain about our canceled trip. Corporate office transferred me to marketing dept. voice-mail. That was Dec 13th. Still waiting for a callback. Called again and got rewards club at Red Rock. That lady said I only had to come and play a little while and points would remain active. Good idea–too bad I live in Wisconsin. Besides, last time I checked, Las Vegas is still a hotspot–like Wisconsin. Guess I second the lady who said she hates Stations. No compassion for the current, and unprecedented, pandemic situation we all find ourselves in.
Dear Vegas visitor
I am facing similar problems such as yours. And we are definetely the only people having issues. What I learned from my most recent visits in the past year, it’s always recommended to cash-out all points before you leave Vegas and return home as it’s useless to have them sit there. In fact, it’s a bit risky as you don’t know about possible changes to happen. On the other hand, it’s nice to know that you have a cushion of 100,000 points in your stations account as this would pay for the first meals when you visit the next time.
I am also concerned about my tier level. It took me a while to earn President and due to travel restrictions I had to skip my 2 trips for 2020. Not so sure but I believe that the status will reset to the lowest level on Jan 1 and when I can visit again next time it will take me a while to earn 100,000 base points so my nice benefits will no longer exist.
Anthony before I renew my membership of over 20 years where can I review what it is in the new book?
Anthony, to me , what’s disturbing is that not only the buffets are gone, but also the good games keep vanishing. Along with that , players keep vanishing, and so are employees as many have been laid off. in a way, this all goes along and looks like a giant chain reaction.
Just like you mentioned it, Anthony, right now, the majority of the gamblers are probably the “hard core gamblers”. Recreational players and tourists are not coming. It’s been like that for a year now and other gambling places suddenly see opportunities. While traveling has become a major hassle, a lot of people refraim from doing that. Not so sure if the big picture would not rather be to attract the tourists and not push them away. This, however, will exactly happen if the casinos return to paid parking, huge resort fee and no good games on the floors.
The only other casinos that I have been at that don’t comp drinks at the bar are Wynn and Encore. Encore had a lot of bars originally. They took all the video poker machines out of the bar tops and closed the bars. Nobody would play there.
I don’t like to kick them when they’re down but the casinos are slowly killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Making comps harder and harder to get, 00 roulette, 6:5 blackjack, hitting soft 17s, no surrender, changing slots games and on and on. Top it off with resort fees and paid parking and it gets worse and worse.
Van, you’re right: what casinos offer is likely to get even worse than it was before. The pandemic has exacerbated trends that preceded it, so the bad games and offers are more likely to get even worse. By the way, you forgot to mention the triple zero roulette! 🙁
I used to play at South Point a lot, but geographical closeness to Red Rock meant I was starting to shift my play there. I had to be out of town for extended periods, handling my parents estate in California, so I hadn’t been to the casino in almost 6 months. When I got back, I had a letter telling me I would lose all my slot club points on X day if I didn’t play by then. That was the following day. I went in and played on the day in the letter, noticing my $460 in points had been zeroed out. Went to the slot club and asked the points be reinstated. They refused. I asked it to be elevated. It was still refused.
That is and was the last time will ever set foot in a Station Casino. While I try and play correct strategy, I am not close to perfect, and am far from an advantage player. I suspect that decision of theirs ended up saving me close to $20k a year.
P.S. The estate is settled, and I have even more cash to use elsewhere.
It was a crazy year with a a tremendous amount of changes. While cure is on its way, I still believe that it may take until fall until halfway normal life will return to us. The casinos are currently working on reduced capacity and try to stay afloat. Nevertheless, once everything will be open again it is my belief that competition will rule. Even strong videopoker players make mistakes now and then. It takes 2-3 mistakes an hour by playing too fast to make a difference. So the casinos know that. Why would they offer so many videopoker games. On the other hand, what good are hundreds or thousands of machines of vp if they sit idle? Just wait an see , is my policy. International travelers are currently not welcomed to Las Vegas. Well, this is probably not true but we still can’t come to visit because of the flight restrictions. Once the vaccine works and the numbers stay low they let us come into your country and then hopefully buffets will open up again and videopoker of the better versions will also be there. That’s my wish for 2021. From Switzerland / Boris
I have to admit, there were many people during the casino closure who predicted that once they opened back up, they would raise table minimums and squeeze out every dime, Scrooge people… I thought the opposite would happen, that they would try to shore up their business. I am a diehard, I think about Las Vegas everyday, I badly want to go when we beat the virus, but this behavior by these corporations leaves a bad taste. I guess I hope this is a cycle, because if its a trend it will dent my thusfar never ending lust to vacation in Las Vegas. If I can’t find five dollar craps anywhere I might as well stay home, they are not going to change my gambling outlooks or habits by trying to soak me.
I have to believe that the Las Vegas perks will continue to shrink. We all see that now players already accept 6/5 blackjack.
The last time I was in Jerry’s Nugget, they had $5 blackjack with two hand-held decks, and $3 blackjack with four decks in a shoe. Both games were 3/2. I do not know what the rest of the rules were, player club benefits, promos, or mailers. Could be worth a look.
I remember ages ago playing $3 blackjack at the Mirage and they even allowed surrender. Whoa. Those were the days.
Las Vegas would have already driven every player into Native American casinos except for the fact that the Native American casinos will not comp drinks.
Mike, the last time that I was in Las Vegas, I found two places that had $5 craps. Ellis Island has it and allows 10x odds. Railroad Pass I think is the name of the other place – way out of town. I don’t remember how much odds you could get there. Good luck.
Here’s how I see it: The casinos are trying to survive, just like any other business. Since casinos rely on customers to bring cash into the house and hopefully walk out with less than that, the casinos probably noticed that less people keep walking through the doors because of the pandemic. The costs are there and the house is trying to win money. With less customers and the same goal only one way could accomplish this goal: The customers remaining have to make up, plus, all holes needs to be fixed for the time being. No matter how tight the casinos will become, it won’t resolve the problems we are all sitting in. To the contrary: Every customer losing too much and too fast will keep that in his mind and may double-think next time before planning another trip to Vegas. As a long term visitor , I believe that this is not the time to rush and we have the option. Unless conditions are acceptable, I will not visit. And I am sure that many other people like me think the same way.
From Switzerland / Boris
Thanks for the info Wilma, Merry Christmas, one of my local Vegas friends has tried to get me to check out Ellis Island many times, now for sure I will do that…
Well, here’s my 2 dollar ante: I live in Vegas and one thing I see is that every time something gets taken away, rarely do we see it go back to the way it was. It all boils down to what the consumer is willing to put up with and how far the establishment will push. Lately, people just want some form of escape. If that costs $50 more because drinks aren’t free, we will justify it. And as the years roll on we will tell the stories. “I remember when…..”
Elac, you’re right: the casinos get away with it because too many customers accept it. For instance, how in the world did they get away with their 6-5 blackjack scam? I understand that that the average player is not worried about proper strategy, but you’d think they demand the traditional return for a blackjack!
I do not think the casino’s new “strategy” to soak whatever they can get from avid gamblers is permanent or sustainable in the long run, they are just in survival mode. The conditions are forcing them to pinch people, when the tourists come back, the competition will return. Right now Stations has no incentive to lure more customers, and the Strip casino’s are stuck with relying on Southern Californians driving in. Until this gets shaken out we have what we have. The general population getting vaccinated is the best and only hope right now, and that is fraught with complications and hiccups. If there is another path, I’m all ears…
Bob writes: “Finally, the day may come when you can no longer find acceptable games. For me, that’s the day I give up video poker gambling.” I think that day HAS come for many—if not most—serious players. Bob, because of his superior knowledge and experience, may be one of the very few who can still find an edge.
I live across the street from the Santa Fe Station. I’ve always maintained President level until this past year. Sadly, the buffet closing, negative point re calibration and general feel for visiting during a pandemic has lessened my interest in visiting the Santa Fe. Sitting at the 4949 bar in-between plastic barriers – must be what Elsie the cow feels like when she gets milked. It just turns me off. I’ve got several hundred thousand points banked that I’ll utilize at the Charcoal room during 1/2 point days, but unless things change for the better – my days of VIP parking at Stations are just a memory.