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Can You Do Everything Correctly in Video Poker and Still Go Broke?

The “system” I promote for winning at video poker has two main steps to it:

  1. Only play when you have the advantage over the house. This includes the base return on the game, the slot club, promotions, mailers, drawing entries, and possibly other things.
  2. Play for small enough stakes that your bankroll isn’t overly endangered. (Some simplify this to only play for what you can afford to lose.)

Do this, I tell gamblers, and in the long run you’ll very likely prosper.

Calling this an actual “system,” or suggesting that I invented it, is ludicrous. It is, however, the methodology I suggest is the best way to win at the game.

In last week’s column, I wrote that it’s conceivable that even when I think I have the advantage over the house, I’m actually the underdog. I don’t believe that happens very often, perhaps never, but it’s conceivable.

If you’re playing a game for stakes where your bankroll is going to be safe 99.99% of the time, one in 10,000 people who does this is going to end up broke. That’s what 99.99% means. It’s like when certain polls said Donald Trump had a 25% chance of winning the presidency at a certain point a few years ago, the polls weren’t wrong. A 25% chance means that there’s a 1-in-4 chance for it to happen, and in that election, the 1-in-4 “longshot” came in.

In truth, calculating exact bankroll requirements is essentially impossible. The two best programs for this, Video Poker for Winners and Dunbar’s Risk Analyzer for Video Poker, will tell you that if you play a particular game with a particular slot club forever and ever, your required bankroll for a 1% (or 0.1% or 0.001% or whatever) is such-and-such.

The thing is, available video poker games change over time. Slot clubs change over time. Many of us play a variety of different games at a variety of different casinos — and next year will have a new set of games to play as things evolve. Calculating exact bankroll calculations in this environment is essentially impossible — partly because we don’t know what games and slot club conditions will be available next year.

To work with this, many competent players (including me) take this approach: “Play with an advantage, with what seems like an appropriate bankroll, and hope for the best.” We all know that “hope for the best” isn’t a strategy, but in the face of such an insolvable mathematical problem, sometimes that’s the best we have. Under-betting your bankroll is safer than over-betting.

There are those who talk about Kelly betting, which is a system of bet-sizing that will grow your bankroll at the maximum rate while essentially reducing to zero your chances of going broke. I’m not going to go there because bet-sizing in video poker is often very limited (as in such-and-such a pay schedule is only available for quarters and this other pay schedule is only available for $5 Triple Play, Five Play, and Ten Play) and your actual edge has some guesswork in there since you’re never positive what your mailer is going to be next month. You can make an educated guess — but sometimes you get surprised.

So, occasionally, somebody can do everything right and still go broke. It’s fairly rare, but it does happen. And if it does happen, they can correctly call it bad luck. A 1-in-10,000 (or whatever it was) case of bad luck.

Those people who do go broke playing video poker, however, usually aren’t victims of this kind of very unusual bad luck. It’s far more likely that some or all of their play was on games where they didn’t have the advantage. Or when they had an advantage if they played every hand perfectly, but they made too many playing errors.  Or sometimes they played while under the influence of one thing or another and they didn’t actually have the advantage during those times. It’s far more likely that even if they did have an edge, the edge was too small relative to their bankroll and the stakes they were playing.

Let’s say we have heard that “Joe,” a guy we thought was a pretty good player, actually went broke while playing video poker. What we will almost certainly never know for sure is:

  1. Exactly what games was he playing?
  2. With exactly what slot club?
  3. With exactly what other promotions going on at the time?
  4. Under what state of sobriety, alertness, and psychological readiness?
  5. What was his starting bankroll?
  6. Did he make any major withdrawals from his gambling bankroll for anything else (perhaps a car, house, vacation, medical bills, helping out relatives, a mistress, drugs, etc.)?
  7. How close to perfectly did he play?

Not knowing this kind of information (in addition to the fact that this particular Joe is hypothetical, so the information is even more unknowable), my personal conclusion would be that it is far more likely Joe violated one of the two numbered conditions at the start of this article than it would be he just got unlucky.

Knowing about a few such people doesn’t shake me from my belief that the “system” works. Call it a Bayesian probability approach, if you will.

I know others who take the approach that “If it could happen to Joe, it could happen to anybody. There’s no guarantee. It’s all random luck.” To those who believe that, I say I believe the math is on my side, but I understand that you are inconvincible.

Some people are more comfortable investing in the stock market rather than gambling. That’s a good bet. A considerable portion of my bankroll is in the stock market. But there’s risk there too. Ten years ago, the market took a 50% dump. For people who owned stocks on margin, it could have been a 100% or 200% dump or even bigger. If you’ve held on since then, the market has recovered and then some. But many people didn’t have the nerve or the wherewithal to hang on.

This column is not about politics, but with the chances of a trade war and/or nuclear war are arguably higher than they were two years ago.  Who knows what the prognosis of the stock market is over the next few years? With video poker, you can know before you make each bet.

(One anecdote isn’t proof of anything, but this one is close to home for me. My father, born in 1915, was 92 years old when the 2007 stock market crash happened. He had about $60 million invested in the market in 2007 — a considerable lifetime achievement — much of it on margin — because he was obsessed with making $100 million before he died. Everyone told him that what he was doing wasn’t prudent at all — but he wouldn’t listen. He felt that he had built up all that money, we hadn’t, and that proved he was smarter than us. He ended up losing everything — and the shock of going from a multi-millionaire to penniless and depending on his children for support was devasting. He ended up losing his mind and dying a few years later.)

Owning your own home has traditionally been a good investment. Many parts of the country, including Las Vegas, had a huge real estate recession 15 or so years ago. Some home owners are still upside down. Long term, if they can hold on, the prices will probably come back. But there will always be people who couldn’t hold on and lost everything with this “good” investment.

Any other investment vehicle you can name has had some ups and downs. I’m somebody who believes the ups and downs of video poker are lower than those of other investments — IF you follow the two rules set out at the beginning. Most people who fail at video poker broke one or both of those rules.  

I’ve been told that I’m responsible when somebody goes broke playing video poker because I encouraged them to play. To that I say I’ve been issuing the same caveats for years. I strongly recommend that if you don’t have the edge, don’t play. If you choose to play anyway, I don’t see how that is my responsibility at all.

On my father’s bookshelf when he died were numerous publications on making money in the stock market. The authors of those publications didn’t suggest he invest the way he did at all. Was it their fault that he went broke? Not in my opinion.

10 thoughts on “Can You Do Everything Correctly in Video Poker and Still Go Broke?

  1. Excellent!

  2. It is my understanding that full Kelly betting carries a risk of ruin (RoR) of approximately 13.5% and not the zero percent quoted in this post. This RoR assumes that you play forever and never resize your bets. Many professional APs bet 1/2 Kelly or even 1/4 Kelly to bring their RoR down below 1%.

    1. There’s actually a “Kelly system”, it’s not just an amount of money. Part of the system is that you stop gambling when you hit the Kelly limit and build your bankroll back up either with your day job or by gambling on something that has a lower Kelly limit. If you do this you will never technically go bankrupt or in other words your ROR is technically zero. This would be something like playing dollar video poker as long as your bankroll was more than $20,000, switching to 50 cent video poker when your bankroll was between $10,000 and $20,000, switching to quarter video poker when your bankroll was between $5,000 to $10,000 and going back to your day job or side gigs if your bankroll ever dipped below $5,000. Anyway, there is a “Kelly system” and it’s more complicated than many people realize, screw up a bit and you face ruin.

  3. Excellent article, but I think I have one minor correction: I believe that “Dunbar’s Risk Analyzer for Video Poker” (I don’t actually own a copy, it needs Excel which I don’t have, and I have other ways of getting the same information) doesn’t make the assumption that you will play forever, you have to input how long you will play. That actually makes it potentially a much more useful tool for real world gambling. Basically, in gambling, if you play forever with an unlimited bankroll and a real edge (as opposed to a paper edge), then your chances of a net loss approach zero. Of course in the real world we play for a limited time with a limited bankroll which increases the chances of a net loss. There are ways to solve for the conditions of a limited bankroll and limited time, my understanding was that Dunbar’s Risk Analyzer for Video Poker is one way to do that. One more comment: there is luck and skill in practically everything, people that win tend to attribute their win to skill while people that lose tend to attribute their loss to luck, of course the reverse is also possible and even more likely is a combination of luck and skill.

  4. “I’ve been told that I’m responsible when somebody goes broke playing video poker because I encouraged them to play. ”

    They are FOS.

    That said, my hard learned rule while playing BJ is to never answer a “should I hit this?” question that other players ask me during the course of play with anything other than: “it’s your money.” If you’re going to hit the [enter game here] be a [wo]man and own up to the risk.

  5. The only times I respond to “Should I hit this?: Clearly they aren’t playing basic strategy, so I might suggest “Play it the same way every time.” For instance, player 12 against a dealer 2; or 16 to dealer high card, play it the same way every time, don’t try to guess. JMHO. Occasionally when someone is all in with a big stack of greens or blacks and they have 15 or 16, I might suggest they could surrender (where allowed) , but only if that player is undecided and asking for a vote. I wouldn’t say they SHOULD surrender, just COULD; sometimes players are unaware they could surrender (the casinos don’t advertise it!).

    Responsible for going broke playing VP? Ask the person if they’ve been taking that antidepressant being advertised on TV as causing compulsive gambling. They can call the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe. LOL.

  6. You wrote Trump had a 25% chance of winning. Actually, in the closing days of the campaign when most people were sure he would lose, the pre-eminent pollster, Nate Silver, wrote, “Trump has a 33% chance of winning, and 1 in 3 chances happen all the time. I always remembered that, because it scared the Hell out of me.

    1. It ended up 33% — but it was quite a bit lower than that previously. I made it a general “at some point” during the campaign, and the 33% was just before the election. Neither of us are incorrect on this.

  7. On this topic do a search for: “Analysis: If you’re rich, you’re more lucky than smart. And there’s math to prove it”

    1. Good article. I’m not familiar with Kelly and I don’t know what an AP is. But the rules make a lot of sense. There are plenty of games offered that take your money much faster than others, but there are some that get close to 100%. It makes sense that you have to play for the best EV every time. And it makes sense to play where you get some kind of added incentive for the money you put through the machines. I think the number of people who can actually make most of their money playing video poker has got to be very limited, and the casinos don’t need to waste their time trying to root them out. Obviously, you are one of those winners, Bob, and that’s why people listen to you. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Which is probably why guns don’t kill people, but people do kill people. My son used to wear a shirt that ended up saying “…then, spoons make Michael Moore fat.” People are responsible for their own actions, regardless of advice given or taken. You always give good advice, by the way.

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