What should you use freeplay on?

Originally posted by: black jack

Definitely not full pay like the one machine at the Plaza, but VPfree says it's still a 99.29% game. (18/7/5)

I like the $1 double deuces, but variance is hell. I've hit quad deuces a couple times,  W2-G for 2K sucks...

 


Yeah, one of VPFree2's many faults is that it doesn't always evaluate less-than-fullpay schedules accurately. To be precise, every 1-unit reduction in the quads payout costs you 0.96%. A 2-unit reduction costs you 1.92%. Subtract that from the 100.65% return of the 20/7 game and you have 98.73%.

 

More of an academic exercise than anything else since there are only a couple more JW machines than unicorns in Vegas.

 

It's kind of odd that the three times I've wandered into the Plaza to play that one ancient 20/7 game, no one's been on it.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

 

The best LVA coupon play for a JOB game is, surprisingly, at the Rio, with their .02 ten-line 9/6 JOB. A lot of fun, and it'll take you about an hour of play to get the bonus, plus you get $10 FP for signing up for Rio Rewards.


Where is this machine located? Just one? I keep hearing about 2c 9/6 at Rio but could only find 25c and above 

They're on a bank of uprights that's on the casino side of the sportsbook bar. Walk past the front desk (going west) and hug the left wall.

 

The three machines are "All Star" and on one side of the bank, facing east 

Edited on Apr 14, 2026 9:57am
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

They're on a bank of uprights that's on the casino side of the sportsbook bar. Walk past the front desk (going west) and hug the left wall.

 

The three machines are "All Star" and on one side of the bank, facing east 


Thanks. Will look again next trip


Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Yeah, one of VPFree2's many faults is that it doesn't always evaluate less-than-fullpay schedules accurately. To be precise, every 1-unit reduction in the quads payout costs you 0.96%. A 2-unit reduction costs you 1.92%. Subtract that from the 100.65% return of the 20/7 game and you have 98.73%.

 

More of an academic exercise than anything else since there are only a couple more JW machines than unicorns in Vegas.

 

It's kind of odd that the three times I've wandered into the Plaza to play that one ancient 20/7 game, no one's been on it.


Always also take into consideration the error-to-perfect play ratio. 1 mistake in 1 hands is possible. 2 errors sometimes happen. Overlooking penalty cards, not 100 per cent sure about the holding, it all can add-up. That's why I for instance stay away from Jokers Wild game because I find it extremely hard to master those games.  Even Deuces Wild (NSUD) is hard to play perfectly always because of sometimes not visible existing penalty cards.... and in 10'000s of hands people are making mistakes. I doubt that even our lord and master Bob D. can play perfectly at all times. When you get tired, more mistakes occur. When you speed up and when you're tired, it's even worse. 

Originally posted by: Boris Radtke

Always also take into consideration the error-to-perfect play ratio. 1 mistake in 1 hands is possible. 2 errors sometimes happen. Overlooking penalty cards, not 100 per cent sure about the holding, it all can add-up. That's why I for instance stay away from Jokers Wild game because I find it extremely hard to master those games.  Even Deuces Wild (NSUD) is hard to play perfectly always because of sometimes not visible existing penalty cards.... and in 10'000s of hands people are making mistakes. I doubt that even our lord and master Bob D. can play perfectly at all times. When you get tired, more mistakes occur. When you speed up and when you're tired, it's even worse. 


I never got too excited about penalty cards, because ignoring that consideration costs very little. I did pay some attention to certain situations that recurred fairly often, such as when to keep or not keep a 2RF in Deuces Wild. But the counterpoint to penalty cards considerations is that altering your play in that manner slows you down. Back in my AP days, time was money and volume was the key.

 

I remember the numbers for FPDW: with perfect play, you got 100.76%. Taking into account only the most common/consequential penalty card decisions, that dropped to 100.73%. Ignoring penalty cards altogether dropped you down to 100.69%. There are similar losses in EV with FPJOB and many other games. One exception, though, is FPDB. Ignoring penalty card considerations costs you almost 0.15%, negating your modest 100.17% edge. So you kind of have to learn it for that game.

 

I look at it this way. The cost of an error in VP is a small fraction of one bet (unless the error is really dumb). If I'm playing quarters, and I make twenty small errors in a session, that's going to cost me $1 or $2. Even an error like in JOB, drawing one to the straight with 67899 (you're supposed to keep the pair) costs you about four cents. I wouldn't be upset by that. I therefore wouldn't play painfully slowly to be perfect, and I definitely wouldn't stay away from a good machine or decline to play a good promo.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

I never got too excited about penalty cards, because ignoring that consideration costs very little. I did pay some attention to certain situations that recurred fairly often, such as when to keep or not keep a 2RF in Deuces Wild. But the counterpoint to penalty cards considerations is that altering your play in that manner slows you down. Back in my AP days, time was money and volume was the key.

 

I remember the numbers for FPDW: with perfect play, you got 100.76%. Taking into account only the most common/consequential penalty card decisions, that dropped to 100.73%. Ignoring penalty cards altogether dropped you down to 100.69%. There are similar losses in EV with FPJOB and many other games. One exception, though, is FPDB. Ignoring penalty card considerations costs you almost 0.15%, negating your modest 100.17% edge. So you kind of have to learn it for that game.

 

I look at it this way. The cost of an error in VP is a small fraction of one bet (unless the error is really dumb). If I'm playing quarters, and I make twenty small errors in a session, that's going to cost me $1 or $2. Even an error like in JOB, drawing one to the straight with 67899 (you're supposed to keep the pair) costs you about four cents. I wouldn't be upset by that. I therefore wouldn't play painfully slowly to be perfect, and I definitely wouldn't stay away from a good machine or decline to play a good promo.


still asking : is there any place in nevada that's offering the good ol' FPDW games?

 

Originally posted by: Boris Radtke

still asking : is there any place in nevada that's offering the good ol' FPDW games?

 


As far as I know, that game is extinct, not just in Vegas, but everywhere. In recent years, from time to time, a FPDW machine or two would surface, and it would be leapt upon like an antelope by a pride of starving lions. But I haven't seen or heard of that happening since 2022.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

As far as I know, that game is extinct, not just in Vegas, but everywhere. In recent years, from time to time, a FPDW machine or two would surface, and it would be leapt upon like an antelope by a pride of starving lions. But I haven't seen or heard of that happening since 2022.


probably one of those last antelopes was at the Riverside Hotel in Laughlin. I found it accidentally and hammered the machine. It was fantastic. One day I got actually lucky and hit 4 or 5 sets of deuces. That was amazing. The last time I saw that game in the menu with that paytable, it was 1 year ago. Since then, they cut it back down to a 8-12 game or so and of course nobody is playing it. Still, the Riverside has 1 Dollar denom NSUD at the Riverside Bar.

Originally posted by: Boris Radtke

still asking : is there any place in nevada that's offering the good ol' FPDW games?

 


Stations claims on their website that they have FPDW but doesn't specify which casino. 

 

https://stationcasinos.com/play/video-poker/

 

Dueces Wild is listed in there 100% payback section.

 

At first I thought they were referring to NSU and rounding up but NSU is listed in a different section. 

 

 

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