The Kenosha Killer Kid may get off

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Well, yeah. When an attorney does something that would normally be considered extremely stupid--in this case, allowing his client to waive his Fifth Amendment rights--that attorney, if at all competent, must have a compelling reason to do so. My guess is that he put the Kid through multiple mock testimony drills and concluded, probably to his surprise, that doing so would help rather than hurt his client. The Kid's performance, while lacking verisimilitude, was sufficient to win over the audience (scrunch).

 

This makes me reflect on the "justice" (ha ha ha) system that relies more on individual performances than the facts, the law, or logic. The attorneys for either side, the witnesses, the defendant, even the judge--all have roles to play a la Shakespeare--"all the world's a stage." And how well they play those roles has an outsized influence on the outcome of the trial.

 

This is the crux of the problem that comes from being tried by "a jury of one's peers." Those "peers" are more often than not immune or resistant to logic, easily swayed by emotional appeals, ignorant of or at least unfamiliar with the law, and statistically, most will lack any higher education. So the "system" is calibrated based on appealing to the emotions of a dozen "average citizens"--yecch. If I was ever a criminal defendant, I would beg the judge for a bench trial rather than my fate being decided by a troop (as in, twelve baboons) of the ignorant. For one thing, statistically, at least three or four of them would be Trumpers. (And Boiler would probably have a similar objection to three or four woke liberals being on the jury, if he were in such a spot.) I consider my "peers" to be university-educated professionals, not some clown who works at Starbucks and whose favorite entertainment is attending monster truck rallies. Elitist of me, I know.

 

Unlike you, I can't see the remotest justification for the Kid's actions. I see where you're coming from--but for God's sake, the Kid didn't have to be there at all. Doesn't the "duty to retreat" include refraining from deliberately entering a volatile and violent situation? And if we don't have that duty, haven't we all regressed to the Wild West days? One of the first signs back then that a community was maturing was when it delegated authority and the right to use lethal force to its peace officers, NOT the ordinary vigilante schmo.

 

This might turn out to be a "split the baby" decision that will probably not make anyone happy. They could decide to nail him on any of a variety of lesser offenses--including those involving his illegal possession of a manly man gun--but murder--? Probably not. Becuz, yer allowed to kill people if you're indignant enough, or something.

 


To be clear, which maybe I wasn't, I'm guessing that the jury will see "the remotest notion" of justification, having been instructed before deliberations by that crabby old white guy of a judge who already has it in for the prosecutor.  Certainly baby face shoulda stayed home and painted somebody's fence instead of "here I come to save the day" with a weapon bigger than he is.

 

And if they buy into the scrunch crying act.  

 

I can practically feel my mom, when I was 17, grabbing me by the nape of my neck, "Girl get back in this house, clean up your room, let the dust fly with that broom, get all that garbage (i.e. the gun) out of sight, and you don't go anywhere tonight."  Yakkity yak!  LOL.

 

Candy

Originally posted by: Boilerman

But he was defending someone's property.  That doesn't count?


Actually, I think it does count.

 

And it should be taken into account in the sentencing when he is found guilty. I think they should also factor in his age. And that his parents are apparently utter scum. And they should also take into account that the most prominent political leader in the country at the time advocated committing violent acts against others. So yeah, those are mitigating factors in the sentencing/

 

But what happens if someone shoots and kills a cop who is engaged in obvious racial profiling thereby denying the victims of their Constitutional civil rights, which is a hell of a lot more serious than property damage? You cool with that Boilerman? I didn't think so. 

Originally posted by: O2bnVegas

To be clear, which maybe I wasn't, I'm guessing that the jury will see "the remotest notion" of justification, having been instructed before deliberations by that crabby old white guy of a judge who already has it in for the prosecutor.  Certainly baby face shoulda stayed home and painted somebody's fence instead of "here I come to save the day" with a weapon bigger than he is.

 

And if they buy into the scrunch crying act.  

 

I can practically feel my mom, when I was 17, grabbing me by the nape of my neck, "Girl get back in this house, clean up your room, let the dust fly with that broom, get all that garbage (i.e. the gun) out of sight, and you don't go anywhere tonight."  Yakkity yak!  LOL.

 

Candy


Yeah, if the Kid had had parents like yours, he wouldn't have made it out of the house, either--and two people would still be alive. His mom is attending the trial, probably for support but possibly also out of guilt. Certainly, the scene being staged is the Kid being devastated with remorse over having no choice but to shoot three people. That's the classic ten pounds of shit in a five-pound bag, but it just might sell.

 

There's a subtext here that the crusty old asshole judge isn't allowing to be heard. The "remorseful" Kid met with the Proud Boys immediately after he shot those men, went to a bar, celebrated with them, and later posted triumphant messages on social media. If the jury was shown those things, the trial would be essentially over. I don't understand how or why the judge is covering that up--it goes directly to the Kid's state of mind at the time, which in turn determines what he's guilty of.

 

I don't know how lax the Kid's parents actually were, but I know I would never have been allowed, at 17, to leave the house to go on an interstate road trip even if I wasn't carrying an assault rifle. Or maybe it was just, "Hey, Mom, I'm going up to Kenosha to kill some n*****s." (Wheel of Fortune playing in the background) "That's fine, sweetie, don't stay out too late."

 

I believe he lives with his mother and his father is out of the picture. Whether she was or wasn't negligent in supervising him, it must be devastating to find out that your teenage son has shot three people, killing two of them. She's probably second-guessing everything she has ever said to him or told him.

Originally posted by: MisterPicture

Actually, I think it does count.

 

And it should be taken into account in the sentencing when he is found guilty. I think they should also factor in his age. And that his parents are apparently utter scum. And they should also take into account that the most prominent political leader in the country at the time advocated committing violent acts against others. So yeah, those are mitigating factors in the sentencing/

 

But what happens if someone shoots and kills a cop who is engaged in obvious racial profiling thereby denying the victims of their Constitutional civil rights, which is a hell of a lot more serious than property damage? You cool with that Boilerman? I didn't think so. 


There clearly are mitigating factors in this case, but the "defending someone's property" excuse isn't one of them. You are NOT entitled to use deadly force to defend anyone else's property--only your own.

 

Certainly, the Kid was Trump-brainwashed--but do we really want to set a precedent that someone committing deadly, violent acts is less culpable because the political leaders he worshiped appeared to sanction such acts? It's like drunk driving. Yeah, you were less able to avoid an accident because you were drunk. But you chose to have that impairment. That's why drunk drivers can be convicted of homicide (as opposed to manslaughter), even though the accident wasn't intentional. The Kid, similarly, deliberately chose gun love and Trump worship. That those things led to his victims' deaths is inescapable.

 

Ultimately, the Kid's age is what will get him leniency, not any cobbled-together justification for his actions. No court in the land should or would sanction what the Kid did.


The kid was Trump Brainwashed.  Aren't 50% of the electorate?

 

He should not have been there.  Period.

 

Where were the cops??

Why don't you guys admit it.  This all comes down to guns, which you hate.  You all believe that the rioters, which is what many of these folks were, should be allowed to damage and burn any property that they like.  You believe that they should be allowed to steal whatever they like.  You believe that no one should should present these criminals any forceful pushback.

 

Recall the couple who stood armed in their yard to prevent damage from what Liberals call protesters, and what we all know included a substantial percentage of rioters intent on doing damage to the property of others.  You guys all argue that this couple shouldn't have stood armed.  Well, their house is still standing and undamaged...........unlike many of their neighbor's homes.

 

Let me clarify one important thing.  You guys are all for unfettering burning and pillaging as long as those rioting support your cause.  On the other hand, I believe deadly force should be allowed to the property of others.

Edited on Nov 12, 2021 4:40am

What you think others believe has nothing to do with what they actually believe. What you believe has nothing to do with reality. Using deadly force to protect others' property is against the law. Period. What you say or think to the contrary is irrelevant.

 

I know that the RepubliQ racist pigs call all Black protestors "rioters" and say that therefore, killing them is justified. I'm not going to try to argue against that evil and horrible point of view.

 

Congratulations, Boiler, you have a soul brother. Maybe you can buy the Killer Kid dinner when this is all over. After all, he did what you've only dreamed of doing. (And yeah, I know he screwed up by shooting people of the wrong color. It's the thought that counts.)

Edited on Nov 12, 2021 9:21am
Originally posted by: Seymour Butts

The kid was Trump Brainwashed.  Aren't 50% of the electorate?

 

He should not have been there.  Period.

 

Where were the cops??


No, it's more like 40%...but that 40% is more active in American politics. Plus, our ancient slavery-based system of government permits that 40% to have more political power than the remaining 60%. If you're a sheep-molesting cowboy in Wyoming, you have eighty times the representation in the Senate that a barista in Los Angeles does--and you have three times as much influence on who gets to be President.

 

Obviously, the Killer Kid shouldn't have been there. But as far as where the cops were was concerned--the situation was chaotic and they were definitely out in force--they were concentrating on the protestors, not the random white yahoos wandering around the perimeter, looking for trouble.

 

Also, the cops chatted with and were very friendly to several of these self-appointed "peacekeepers," though it's not clear whether they ever talked to the Kid or not--so they definitely sent the message that strutting around with one's manly man gun was not only permitted but welcomed. The cops (in general--not necessarily any specific cop) were hostile to the protestors, as was pretty much anyone nationwide who wasn't white. Remember, the protests were about the shooting of an unarmed Black man by a cop.

This never would have happen if wisconsin had a strong leader as governor. Trump offered help after first night of riots, governor Evers turned it down until there were two dead.

Just what we’re the 3 victims doing there? Protesting, which it was apparent was an excuse to riot, rob and steal! One of the 3 victims pulled a gun on the accused escalating the entire episode to another level. Appears the man who pulled the pistol was simply outgunned! Poor choices by all.

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