2014***ObamaCare***2014

How about this, Don Diego....imagine a world where slavery was the law of the land....and the sitting president without authorization of Congress stood up and said slavery was no more...like in some kind of proclamation of emancipation...could you imagine? Dictators are scary people.
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
How about this, Don Diego....imagine a world where slavery was the law of the land....and the sitting president without authorization of Congress stood up and said slavery was no more...like in some kind of proclamation of emancipation...could you imagine? Dictators are scary people.
Poor old DonDiego has a pretty good imagination, . . . so yes, he could imagine that.

But it would not be Constitutional. DonDiego is pleased that it didn't happen in the United States of America.

Here follows a lesson in how a President conducts business within the Constitution and is even able to legally change the Constitution:

The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order issued by President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, as a war measure during the American Civil War, to all segments of the Executive branch (including the Army and Navy) of the United States. It proclaimed the freedom of slaves in the ten states that were still in rebellion, thus applying to 3.1 million of the 4 million slaves in the U.S. at the time. The Proclamation was based on the President's constitutional authority as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces; it was not a law passed by Congress.
It did not apply to those slaves in the four slave states that were not in rebellion (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, and Missouri (which were unnamed), nor to Tennessee, which was under Union control (also unnamed), and specifically excluded counties of Virginia soon to form the state of West Virginia.
Why not? Because President Lincoln did not have Commander-in-Chief authority over the four slave-holding states that were not in rebellion and West Virginia was still part of Virginia. It would have been unconstitutional.

President Lincoln supported Constitutional Amendment to abolish slavery uniformly throughout the United States as part of his reelection campaign in 1864.
In January 1865, Congress sent to the state legislatures for ratification what became the Thirteenth Amendment, banning slavery in all U.S. states and territories. The amendment was ratified by the legislatures of enough states by December 6, 1865, and proclaimed 12 days later.

The sitting President to whom pjstroh refers honored the Constitution. It is unfortunate that pjstroh refers to him as a "scary dictator".

A Minor Addendum:
DonDiego, as have many thoughtful folks before him recognizes that the most efficient, effective, and beneficent form of Government would be that administered by a Benevolent Dictator.
Fortunately there are folks who think beyond the simple thoughtful folks like poor old DonDiego, . . . like a certain John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton. This historian and moralist expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
i.e. Dictators are scary.

DonDiego opines the next best thing is some sorta Constitutional Republic; he thinks Lord Acton would agree.


Ref: wikipedia
Wait..you mean he applied the executive order to some states but not others? Oh, the horror! It just keeps getting worse.
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
Wait..you mean he applied the executive order to some states but not others? Oh, the horror! It just keeps getting worse.

Lincoln used Presidential war powers. Does ObeyMe think he is at war with American workers and businesses?

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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
The real question that no liberal will honestly answer is, why did ObeyMe change his signature legislation again?
Same reason Bush changed the implementation of Medicare Part D after unforeseen foul-ups in that law. Because it needed changing. And don't pretend this is about "blaming" Bush.

Bush did the right thing. Ditto Obama.


Exactly which unforeseen ACA "foul-ups" will the delays fix?
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Originally posted by: Tutontow
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
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Originally posted by: forkushV
Okay, lets see if I got this right.

1. DonDiego says that the employer mandate is HORRIBLE.
2. DonDiego says that delaying the employer mandate is HORRIBLE - because Constitution.

DonDiego should refrain from stating this opinion as a fact, since he was so, so wrong about the constitutionality of Obamacare last time out.

i. This is what happens when someone with a different opinion tells others what someone's opinion is. He misstates it, intentionally.
DonDiego explicitly did not say anything is "HORRIBLE".

ii. DonDiego still believes Obamacare itself is Unconstitutional; he opines the the Court's decision was too limited to the "tax question". He was most careful to never predict the Court's opinion.
DonDiego is not forbidden to hold the hope that it may yet fail a court test. Even President Roosevelt's National Recovery Act which authorized the Government to administer privately owned resources and factories was ruled Unconstitutional eventually.

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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
I agree that it's troubling whenever a President, in executing the laws that Congress passes, does so in a manner that seems inconsistent with the law.

Having said that, and as a person who can still recall how bound to Congress' will the Cheney Administration was, I do recognize that our Presidents have always used some leeway in putting Congress' intentions into effect.

The Obama Administration seems both cautious and smart to me. If they're varying from the law, you can be sure they're doing it in a way that they think is legal.

If Republicans truly hate President Obama's decision today to delay aspects of the ACA's employer mandate for a year, they should sue him and force him to impose the mandate. Which of course would be awesome.

i. DonDiego agrees the President's execution of Obamacare seems inconsistent with the Law.

ii.a. There was no Cheney Administration; stating there was is false and informs the reader more about the poster's bias than about reality.
Nonetheless, DonDiego supposes the answer to the Zen koan "If all your friends jumped off a bridge then would you too?" posed to him by his Mother on more than one occasion applies to all prior administrations' behavior.
ii.b. DonDiego opines "leeway" does not include changing dates explicitly included in the Law pertaining to implementation.

iii. DonDiego is not sure the Obama Administration believes it is behaving legally; saying he can be sure does not make it so.

iv. DonDiego concurs that interested parties should sue the President for failing to execute the Law. For the record, . . . again, . . . DonDiego does not act out of hate.


When I see wording like this I think the same can be said about DonDiego's Bias

"EXTRA ! EXTRA ! READ ALL ABOUT IT !

President Obama [AKA He-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed] has once again unilaterally changed his THE OBAMACARE to suit his political purposes.

Such imperial benevolence is not unprecedented:
"Originally, employers with the equivalent of 50 full-time workers or more had to offer [Obamacare] coverage or pay a penalty starting at $2,000 per worker beginning in 2014.
That so-called employer mandate was seen as a cornerstone provision in the law's goal of expanding insurance coverage to millions of Americans this year. But last summer the administration announced a surprise one-year reprieve in enforcement of the requirement, from 2014 to 2015."

Now He-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed. upon hearing the pleas from His People, i.e. Democrat officeholders facing elections in 2014 less than two months after cancellation notices would be received by potential voters if the employer mandate were not delayed, has decreed :
" . . . employers with between 50 and 99 full-time workers won't have to comply with the law's requirement to provide insurance or pay a fee until 2016.
Companies with 100 workers or more could avoid penalties in 2015 if they showed they were offering coverage to at least 70 percent of their full-time workers . . ."


In all honesty DD I would be much more receptive to the point you are trying to make if you would drop the rhetoric.

And just to pile on:

"He can compress the most words into the smallest ideas better than any man I ever met." - Abraham Lincoln

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Originally posted by: DonDiego
DonDiego opines the next best thing is some sorta Constitutional Republic; he thinks Lord Acton would agree.





la Nation, la Loi, le roy
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
The real question that no liberal will honestly answer is, why did ObeyMe change his signature legislation again?
Same reason Bush changed the implementation of Medicare Part D after unforeseen foul-ups in that law. Because it needed changing. And don't pretend this is about "blaming" Bush.

Bush did the right thing. Ditto Obama.


Exactly which unforeseen ACA "foul-ups" will the delays fix?
I think it's about getting major stakeholders on board with the change-over. Like the National Retail Federation and the National Restaurant Association, who gave it a thumbs up.

Bush was right when he adjusted his signature health care initiative. Ditto Obama. People who criticize one president but excuse the other are sleazy hypocrites - but their still not as bad as Boilerman's scummy friend Nick.
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
The real question that no liberal will honestly answer is, why did ObeyMe change his signature legislation again?
Same reason Bush changed the implementation of Medicare Part D after unforeseen foul-ups in that law. Because it needed changing. And don't pretend this is about "blaming" Bush.

Bush did the right thing. Ditto Obama.


Exactly which unforeseen ACA "foul-ups" will the delays fix?
I think it's about getting major stakeholders on board with the change-over. Like the National Retail Federation and the National Restaurant Association, who gave it a thumbs up.

Bush was right when he adjusted his signature health care initiative. Ditto Obama. People who criticize one president but excuse the other are sleazy hypocrites - but their still not as bad as Boilerman's scummy friend Nick.

You still didn't answer the question, unless there is nothing wrong with the legislation, and there are no unforeseen "foul-ups". If there were "foul-ups", the legislation would actually change, not be delayed and implemented exactly as written at a later date.
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
The real question that no liberal will honestly answer is, why did ObeyMe change his signature legislation again?
Same reason Bush changed the implementation of Medicare Part D after unforeseen foul-ups in that law. Because it needed changing. And don't pretend this is about "blaming" Bush.

Bush did the right thing. Ditto Obama.


Exactly which unforeseen ACA "foul-ups" will the delays fix?
I think it's about getting major stakeholders on board with the change-over. Like the National Retail Federation and the National Restaurant Association, who gave it a thumbs up.

Bush was right when he adjusted his signature health care initiative. Ditto Obama. People who criticize one president but excuse the other are sleazy hypocrites - but their still not as bad as Boilerman's scummy friend Nick.

You still didn't answer the question, unless there is nothing wrong with the legislation, and there are no unforeseen "foul-ups". If there were "foul-ups", the legislation would actually change, not be delayed and implemented exactly as written at a later date.
Are you referring to Bush's Medicare Part D implementation, or Obama's ACA implementation? Please be specific, because your criticism applies to each.

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