Vegas Free-for-All - Donald Trump to buy Buffalo Bills?

‹2 ›

Roulette Man

Apr 1, 2014
11:15am

Block User

Obviously chilli is a very poor numbers guy. What stupid logic.

Boilerman

Apr 2, 2014
12:13am

Block User

I don't know the answer to this question, but Chilly must. What is the current stadium agreement between the city and the team? Is there another city willing to offer a better deal?

Chilly and Boiler may look at different criteria when assessing such situations.

Quote

Originally posted by: Chilcoot
There's no reason for the Bills to move. NFL Football Stadiums are TV studios. They can exist anywhere.

The league could relocate every team to Burkina Faso and barely see an impact on its bottom line.

TV TV TV.

Boilerman

Apr 2, 2014
12:23am

Block User

I believe the NFL desires some stability in the league, and that includes the cities hosting NFL franchises. That being said, the league office will allow a move when a city offers a sweet deal. Most of those good deals appear to have dried up when the economy turned south, however.

Trump would dig up a deal since he's creative. I consider him to be a great businessman and a ruthless prick. He would be like Jerry Jones creating value and wealth, but he would not be the GM.

Quote

Originally posted by: Chilcoot

Quote
Originally posted by: Roulette Man
Jacksonville doesn't have a big enough population to support the team.

The NFL doesn't need its teams in big cities. Their stadiums are just TV studios. They could play the games anywhere.

2013: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2012: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2011: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2010: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2009: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2008: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2007: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
2007: Empty seats in Jacksonville. Team doesn't move to Los Angeles.
. . .

The Jaguars’ lease with the city expires in 2030 and it would cost about $100 million to break the lease. For the NFL and Shad Khan, $100 million is almost nothing. He has $4B, and didn't get it by being dumb.

Yet he and the league keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville (and the Bills in Buffalo and the Chargers in San Diego and the Packers in Green Bay and the Bucs in Tampa and the Raiders, well, hmmm).

NFL stadiums are TV studios and could be put anywhere.

hoops2

Apr 2, 2014
12:29am

Block User

Quote

If the stadium isn't that important, why did the Jets/Giants/49'rs choose to tear down perfectly good stadiums and build new ones? These 3 teams sold out all their games & the waiting list for the Giants was 20 years and the Jets 10.

The answer - much higher ticket prices and luxury boxes

Roulette Man

Apr 2, 2014
12:35am

Block User

If we were to listen to Chilli, he/she/it claims that it makes no difference where an NFL team is located because of television revenue. Chilli thinks all of the other revenue streams are immaterial and that the relative revenues are pretty much equal. Well that is nonsense. Here is a chart from Forbes which shows a team's estimated value, its total revenue for 2012, and its 2012 operating income. While operating income can be misleading because of higher costs in one city over another or due to an owner being more frugile than other owners, the total revenue gives an indication that there are MATERIAL differences in revenues between teams.

Team Value 2012 2012 Operating
Revenue Income
1 Dallas Cowboys $2.3 billion $539 million $250.7 million
2 New England Patriots $1.8 billion $408 million $139.2 million
3 Washington Redskins $1.7 billion $381 million $104.3 million
4 New York Giants $1.55 billion $338 million $64.4 million
5 Houston Texans $1.45 billion $320 million $81.5 million
6 New York Jets $1.38 billion $321 million $52.8 million
7 Philadelphia Eagles $1.314 billion $306 million $47.8 million
8 Chicago Bears $1.252 billion $298 million $63.2 million
9 Baltimore Ravens $1.227 billion $292 million $48.3 million
10 San Francisco 49ers $1.224 billion $255 million $10.2 million
11 Indianapolis Colts $1.2 billion $276 million $65 million
12 Green Bay Packers $1.183 billion $282 million $54.3 million
13 Denver Broncos $1.161 billion $283 million $31.7 million
14 Pittsburgh Steelers $1.118 billion $266 million $28.3 million
15 Seattle Seahawks $1.081 billion $270 million $28.2 million
16 Miami Dolphins $1.074 billion $268 million $24.8 million
17 Tampa Bay Buccaneers $1.067 billion $267 million $2.2 million
18 Carolina Panthers $1.057 billion $271 million $28.9 million
19 Tennessee Titans $1.055 billion $270 million $40 million
20 Kansas City Chiefs $1.009 billion $245 million $15 million
21 Minnesota Vikings $1.007 billion $234 million $28 million
22 Cleveland Browns $1.005 billion $264 million $17.1 million
23 New Orleans Saints $1.004 billion $276 million $22.2 million
24 Arizona Cardinals $961 million $253 million $9.7 million
25 San Diego Chargers $949 million $250 million $30.4 million
26 Atlanta Falcons $933 million $252 million $18.5 million
27 Cincinnati Bengals $924 million $250 million $37.3 million
28 Detroit Lions $900 million $248 million -$3.5 million
29 St. Louis Rams $875 million $239 million $21.1 million
30 Buffalo Bills $870 million $256 million $12.6 million
31 Jacksonville Jaguars $840 million $260 million $15.5 million
32 Oakland Raiders $825 million $229 million $19.1 million

Link

Boilerman

Apr 2, 2014
12:40am

Block User

To understand how business works and how value and wealth is created, one must a reasonable grasp of reality. That leaves some folks outside of a reasonable discussion.

Quote

Originally posted by: Roulette Man
If we were to listen to Chilli, he/she/it claims that it makes no difference where an NFL team is located because of television revenue. Chilli thinks all of the other revenue streams are immaterial and that the relative revenues are pretty much equal. Well that is nonsense. Here is a chart from Forbes which shows a team's estimated value, its total revenue for 2012, and its 2012 operating income. While operating income can be misleading because of higher costs in one city over another or due to an owner being more frugile than other owners, the total revenue gives an indication that there are MATERIAL differences in revenues between teams.

Team Value 2012 2012 Operating
Revenue Income
1 Dallas Cowboys $2.3 billion $539 million $250.7 million
2 New England Patriots $1.8 billion $408 million $139.2 million
3 Washington Redskins $1.7 billion $381 million $104.3 million
4 New York Giants $1.55 billion $338 million $64.4 million
5 Houston Texans $1.45 billion $320 million $81.5 million
6 New York Jets $1.38 billion $321 million $52.8 million
7 Philadelphia Eagles $1.314 billion $306 million $47.8 million
8 Chicago Bears $1.252 billion $298 million $63.2 million
9 Baltimore Ravens $1.227 billion $292 million $48.3 million
10 San Francisco 49ers $1.224 billion $255 million $10.2 million
11 Indianapolis Colts $1.2 billion $276 million $65 million
12 Green Bay Packers $1.183 billion $282 million $54.3 million
13 Denver Broncos $1.161 billion $283 million $31.7 million
14 Pittsburgh Steelers $1.118 billion $266 million $28.3 million
15 Seattle Seahawks $1.081 billion $270 million $28.2 million
16 Miami Dolphins $1.074 billion $268 million $24.8 million
17 Tampa Bay Buccaneers $1.067 billion $267 million $2.2 million
18 Carolina Panthers $1.057 billion $271 million $28.9 million
19 Tennessee Titans $1.055 billion $270 million $40 million
20 Kansas City Chiefs $1.009 billion $245 million $15 million
21 Minnesota Vikings $1.007 billion $234 million $28 million
22 Cleveland Browns $1.005 billion $264 million $17.1 million
23 New Orleans Saints $1.004 billion $276 million $22.2 million
24 Arizona Cardinals $961 million $253 million $9.7 million
25 San Diego Chargers $949 million $250 million $30.4 million
26 Atlanta Falcons $933 million $252 million $18.5 million
27 Cincinnati Bengals $924 million $250 million $37.3 million
28 Detroit Lions $900 million $248 million -$3.5 million
29 St. Louis Rams $875 million $239 million $21.1 million
30 Buffalo Bills $870 million $256 million $12.6 million
31 Jacksonville Jaguars $840 million $260 million $15.5 million
32 Oakland Raiders $825 million $229 million $19.1 million

Link

hoops2

Apr 2, 2014
12:46am

Block User

The Jets & Giants are getting close to 40% of their revenue from ticket sales

Roulette Man

Apr 2, 2014
12:51am

Block User

NFL teams have to share 40% of their ticket sales. They don't have to share any of their revenue from luxury suites.

hoops2

Apr 2, 2014
1:08am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: Roulette Man
NFL teams have to share 40% of their ticket sales. They don't have to share any of their revenue from luxury suites.

Thanks for the update

Dan Svatass

Apr 2, 2014
3:51am

Block User

Here are the sources of the NFL's current $10 billion a year revenue stream:

* About $5 billion from media and television rights to broadcast games.
* About $2 billion in sponsorships, (Pepsi alone is about $100 million a year).
* About $2 billion related to attendance and ticket sales.
* About $1 billion in merchandise and licensing.

As you can see, tickets are one-fifth or so of revenue. TV is half.

What makes tickets even less important to individual owners is that each NFL team only gets to keep 60% of its home game ticket revenue. It has to give the other 40% to the visiting team. This severely depresses a team's interest in which city it plays in, since they have to give away almost half their ticket receipts.

On average, an NFL team generates $62.5 million in ticket sales, but only gets to keep $37.5 million for itself. Out of $312.5 million in revenue per team. So ticket sales are a tiny slice of the overall revenue pie. That's why individual teams don't much care what city they play in: it doesn't affect their bottom line much.

Sure, they'd make a little more by being LA's team. But not much more.

And it's not just LA. Think about how much more the Jags could earn by splitting Chicago's huge market with the Bears. Or Dallas' huge market with the Cowboys. There's only 1.4 million in the Jacksonville area, the 40th market in America. Yet they don't move to Los Angeles, which is 10 times larger. Because the NFL doesn't care where it's teams play.

Also, people would do well to update their thinking for the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. NFL teams no longer keep all of their luxury box revenue. Some of it goes to a pooled stadium fund that all teams can draw on. Some more of it is given to lower-revenue clubs via a luxury tax.

‹2 ›

Already a LVA subscriber?
To continue reading, choose an option below:

Diamond Membership

$3 per month

Unlimited access to LVA website

Exclusive subscriber-only content

Limited Member Rewards Online

Join Now

Platinum Membership

$50 per year

Unlimited access to LVA website

Exclusive subscriber-only content

Exclusive Member Rewards Book

Join Now