It Really Is a Catch 22

There is no way to prove exactly how much Mexican illegals have pushed manual labor income down, but I believe that is a bunch. Maybe 50%.


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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
The supply of illegal manual labor coming from Mexico for decades has flooded that market. Since the laws of supply and demand are true, and the supply of labor is massive, this hold wages down...
Yup, by teeny tiny amount.




Average income in the United States, even after adjusting for inflation, is higher than ever. However, the median income has been declining.

People smart enough to know what that means know that it's all by design.
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
No argument there. Companies, if given the choice between two people of equal quality, will always hire the cheaper. Politicians need to stop the flow of immigrants who come to America and compete with Americans for jobs. These jobs should be for folks who are legally in the United States.

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Originally posted by: Tutontow
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
The supply of illegal manual labor coming from Mexico for decades has flooded that market. Since the laws of supply and demand are true, and the supply of labor is massive, this hold wages down. The same folks that vote Obama are the same folks that are getting hammered by his lack of immigration policy. I fully agree that we've experienced this problem for years, but it has accelerated under this president.


I agree with you and the same people that vote republican hire those illegals to increase their bottom line.



I live in an area with a large Mexican population. My home was built mostly by Mexicans and as much as it pains me to say this they could dance circles around most of the "Crackers" that worked on my home. Whether it was framing, drywall or roofing the Mexicans truly got three times as much done in a day as the Crackers. I am a Cracker myself so it really pains me to say this but the Crackers didn't show up half the time. Were constantly on their cell phones and they would look for any reason to leave the job early.

Without going into detail several times there was no electricity at my jobsite. It was a 250 foot run from the meter box to my house. I offered more than once to rent a generator for the Crackers, nope that was an excuse to go get drunk. The Mexicans would run up to Lowes and rent their own generator or they would figure out what was wrong with the electrical feed so they could get to work.

I live out here surrounded by Mexicans and quite frankly it is amazing how hard they work. I live on a two acre lot that is heavily landscaped, don't even get me started how many plants a Mexican can plant in a day. I have befriended many of them and I am proud to call them my friends.

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
Average income in the United States, even after adjusting for inflation, is higher than ever. However, the median income has been declining.

People smart enough to know what that means know that it's all by design.


I totally agree. What is amazing is that my father told me back in 1975 when I was trying to decide what to do with myself that the middle class will be going away. It looks like he was right.


I agree with you in part, but it is not the whole story. The expansion of anti-union laws and the diminished worker protections is the other part driving wage wages down.

Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
The supply of illegal manual labor coming from Mexico for decades has flooded that market. Since the laws of supply and demand are true, and the supply of labor is massive, this hold wages down. The same folks that vote Obama are the same folks that are getting hammered by his lack of immigration policy. I fully agree that we've experienced this problem for years, but it has accelerated under this president.


Quote

Originally posted by: Tutontow
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
No argument there. Companies, if given the choice between two people of equal quality, will always hire the cheaper. Politicians need to stop the flow of immigrants who come to America and compete with Americans for jobs. These jobs should be for folks who are legally in the United States.

Quote

Originally posted by: Tutontow
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
The supply of illegal manual labor coming from Mexico for decades has flooded that market. Since the laws of supply and demand are true, and the supply of labor is massive, this hold wages down. The same folks that vote Obama are the same folks that are getting hammered by his lack of immigration policy. I fully agree that we've experienced this problem for years, but it has accelerated under this president.


I agree with you and the same people that vote republican hire those illegals to increase their bottom line.



I live in an area with a large Mexican population. My home was built mostly by Mexicans and as much as it pains me to say this they could dance circles around most of the "Crackers" that worked on my home. Whether it was framing, drywall or roofing the Mexicans truly got three times as much done in a day as the Crackers. I am a Cracker myself so it really pains me to say this but the Crackers didn't show up half the time. Were constantly on their cell phones and they would look for any reason to leave the job early.

Without going into detail several times there was no electricity at my jobsite. It was a 250 foot run from the meter box to my house. I offered more than once to rent a generator for the Crackers, nope that was an excuse to go get drunk. The Mexicans would run up to Lowes and rent their own generator or they would figure out what was wrong with the electrical feed so they could get to work.

I live out here surrounded by Mexicans and quite frankly it is amazing how hard they work. I live on a two acre lot that is heavily landscaped, don't even get me started how many plants a Mexican can plant in a day. I have befriended many of them and I am proud to call them my friends.


I used to be involved in construction and you are absolutely right, those guys will work circles around most of us crackers.

I also agree w/boiler, it's a simple supply and demand issue, there's an incredibly huge pool of cheap labor(I don't give a sh!t what forkys little study shows, google what you want to find and something will always pop up) and that has really kept wages depressed. I've lost out on bids along with some of my contractor friends to hispanic workers. They could easily cut a bid in half or more. Many times I would get a job just because the homeowner wanted guys who spoke english in and around there house. Towards the end I was doing mainly sub work for a guy who was rehabbing houses which suited me fine.

There is a changing paradigm and America is late to the party. Too many Americans get educated without any specific job skills in mind. The way the world is now, you're not going to earn a decent living with your back. You need to use your brain. You might not need college but you need job skills.
Why isn't Chilly calling Tutontow a racist for saying that Mexican outwork white folks in manual labor jobs? You are correct, by the way.



Quote

Originally posted by: Tutontow
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
No argument there. Companies, if given the choice between two people of equal quality, will always hire the cheaper. Politicians need to stop the flow of immigrants who come to America and compete with Americans for jobs. These jobs should be for folks who are legally in the United States.

Quote

Originally posted by: Tutontow
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
The supply of illegal manual labor coming from Mexico for decades has flooded that market. Since the laws of supply and demand are true, and the supply of labor is massive, this hold wages down. The same folks that vote Obama are the same folks that are getting hammered by his lack of immigration policy. I fully agree that we've experienced this problem for years, but it has accelerated under this president.


I agree with you and the same people that vote republican hire those illegals to increase their bottom line.



I live in an area with a large Mexican population. My home was built mostly by Mexicans and as much as it pains me to say this they could dance circles around most of the "Crackers" that worked on my home. Whether it was framing, drywall or roofing the Mexicans truly got three times as much done in a day as the Crackers. I am a Cracker myself so it really pains me to say this but the Crackers didn't show up half the time. Were constantly on their cell phones and they would look for any reason to leave the job early.

Without going into detail several times there was no electricity at my jobsite. It was a 250 foot run from the meter box to my house. I offered more than once to rent a generator for the Crackers, nope that was an excuse to go get drunk. The Mexicans would run up to Lowes and rent their own generator or they would figure out what was wrong with the electrical feed so they could get to work.

I live out here surrounded by Mexicans and quite frankly it is amazing how hard they work. I live on a two acre lot that is heavily landscaped, don't even get me started how many plants a Mexican can plant in a day. I have befriended many of them and I am proud to call them my friends.


I disagree with your take on why union jobs are decreasing. The economy is becoming more and more global each day. If an American union company makes a product for $1000, and an international makes the same product of equal quality for $900, who's going to get the business?

People can complain, but the fact is that stronger the union the less competitive they are on the International market. Think Honda vs Ford and GM.


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Originally posted by: malibber2
I agree with you in part, but it is not the whole story. The expansion of anti-union laws and the diminished worker protections is the other part driving wage wages down.

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Originally posted by: Boilerman
The supply of illegal manual labor coming from Mexico for decades has flooded that market. Since the laws of supply and demand are true, and the supply of labor is massive, this hold wages down. The same folks that vote Obama are the same folks that are getting hammered by his lack of immigration policy. I fully agree that we've experienced this problem for years, but it has accelerated under this president.



I agree. A Liberal arts degree will cost one $100,00 - $200,000 and will likely earn one little income after graduation. A 2 year technical degree will cost far less and will likely earn far more.



Quote

Originally posted by: snidely333
There is a changing paradigm and America is late to the party. Too many Americans get educated without any specific job skills in mind. The way the world is now, you're not going to earn a decent living with your back. You need to use your brain. You might not need college but you need job skills.


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