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Non-Vegas......Obama warns Russia

Boilerman
Boilerman
Jul 29, 2014
2:20am
Block User
Let me clarify my stance on the Gulf war. We should not have gone to war, because the US citizenry was not (and is not) ready to win a war. When I say "not ready", this means that most citizens will not currently support our military doing what we need to win.

To win, we must be brutal. To win, we kill fighters, men, woman and children. If children are in the way, that is unfortunate. We will not win a war, and should not go to war again, until we are ready to fight like we did in WWII.


Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Your first sentence of PJ's post reads "His foreign policy has yielded far more results with far fewer dollars and casualties than his predecessor. If you want to laugh at that, have at it." Apparently I jumped to an incorrect conclusion that where not referring to President Obama's predecessor................George W Bush?

PJ, I've posted numerous times on this site that we made a mistake going into Iraq with George W.

Can we now discuss current events, and Obama's history of making idle threats?



No, because you ignored my point.

Tell you what.... Tell me that you believe the 911 attack against the US was the result of having a limped- dick president Because that's your explanation of all world conflict that has occurred under Obama.

I'll (of course) disagree but respect you more for having a consistent point of view. Otherwise I cant take you seriously.


alanleroyII
alanleroyII
Jul 29, 2014
2:22am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
DonDiego supposes more would be gained by the Forum members with a calm, deliberate discussion of the issues, . . .

On the Ukraine issue, President AlanLeroy would have sent in the M&A team from Goldman to work out a peaceful sale of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine to Russia. The mostly Russian sympathizing citizens of these areas get to reunite with their motherland. Russia gets territory. The remaining Ukraine gets no charge natural gas deliveries for 25 years and forgiveness of any existing Russian debt. The USA gets tax on the substantial commission. Everybody wins.

Dan Svatass
Dan Svatass
Jul 29, 2014
3:55am
Block User
Europe's leaders have decided to join the United States in significantly ratcheting up sanctions on Russia for its continued support of the Ukrainian separatists. From the New York Times:

The new sanctions target Russia’s state-owned banks, and will restrict sales to Russia of arms, some kinds of technology and some equipment used by the oil industry. European diplomats also drew up a list of people who will face individual sanctions, including at least three close associates of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.
. . .
European governments were moving in lock step with the United States on the new round of sanctions, despite concerns that they would pay an economic price for confronting the Kremlin more aggressively.
. . .
Though Europe’s commerce with Russia will probably slump because of the sanctions, they are expected to hit Russia more severely, especially the restrictions on Russian banks’ ability to raise money in Europe and the United States. “These sanctions can have quite a substantial chilling effect on the Russian economy,” said Adam Slater, a senior economist at Oxford Economics in London. “That is probably a quite effective way to put pressure on Russia.”
Boilerman
Boilerman
Jul 29, 2014
3:57am
Block User
Does Alanleroy believe that the Ukraine would trust Russia on a 25 year deal?


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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
DonDiego supposes more would be gained by the Forum members with a calm, deliberate discussion of the issues, . . .

On the Ukraine issue, President AlanLeroy would have sent in the M&A team from Goldman to work out a peaceful sale of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine to Russia. The mostly Russian sympathizing citizens of these areas get to reunite with their motherland. Russia gets territory. The remaining Ukraine gets no charge natural gas deliveries for 25 years and forgiveness of any existing Russian debt. The USA gets tax on the substantial commission. Everybody wins.



Boilerman
Boilerman
Jul 29, 2014
4:04am
Block User
This article unfortunately provides no information which would allow reader to come to an intelligent conclusion about the importance of this agreement. They will limit some arms, some technology, and some oil equipment. What's the dollar amount?

I want to know if this will cost Russia $1 million per year in sales or $1 trillion per year in sales. What a terrible article.



Quote
Originally posted by: Chilcoot
Europe's leaders have decided to join the United States in significantly ratcheting up sanctions on Russia for its continued support of the Ukrainian separatists. From the New York Times:

The new sanctions target Russia’s state-owned banks, and will restrict sales to Russia of arms, some kinds of technology and some equipment used by the oil industry. European diplomats also drew up a list of people who will face individual sanctions, including at least three close associates of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.
. . .
European governments were moving in lock step with the United States on the new round of sanctions, despite concerns that they would pay an economic price for confronting the Kremlin more aggressively.
. . .
Though Europe’s commerce with Russia will probably slump because of the sanctions, they are expected to hit Russia more severely, especially the restrictions on Russian banks’ ability to raise money in Europe and the United States. “These sanctions can have quite a substantial chilling effect on the Russian economy,” said Adam Slater, a senior economist at Oxford Economics in London. “That is probably a quite effective way to put pressure on Russia.”


alanleroyII
alanleroyII
Jul 29, 2014
4:58am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Does Alanleroy believe that the Ukraine would trust Russia on a 25 year deal?

The deal would be structured in such a way to guarantee payment. Like they way Bill Clinton got liens on Mexican Oil when we bailed them out of The Peso Crisis of 1995...or using the IMF and the BIS as arbiters and a conduit for payment. Think outside the box. man. The people who live in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine want no part of it. Keeping it together with an iron fist is going to work about as well as Post Soviet Yugoslavia. Everyone wins with my solution...who wins with yours? Oh that's right. You have no solution.

Don
Don
Jul 29, 2014
6:00am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
On the Ukraine issue, President AlanLeroy would have sent in the M&A team from Goldman to work out a peaceful sale of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine to Russia. The mostly Russian sympathizing citizens of these areas get to reunite with their motherland. Russia gets territory. The remaining Ukraine gets no charge natural gas deliveries for 25 years and forgiveness of any existing Russian debt. The USA gets tax on the substantial commission. Everybody wins.
All-in-all, . . . an excellent plan, . . . not to mention it doesn't bitch at/about another poster.

However, DonDiego is no longer confident in the honesty of Goldman. And DonDiego would counsel Ukraine to hold on to as much fertile farmland as possible; in fact this could be a deal-breaker. Fertile soil is going to become very, very important soon.

With these two provisos, . . . outstanding !
LurkerPoster
LurkerPoster
Jul 29, 2014
6:17am
Block User
I'm kinda curious about one thing (since some of the right winger around here are only concerned about crushing Putin and exporting oil and natural gas), who is going to worry about all the innocent civilian victoms and peace for those who actually prefer that over all the verbal mustle?
alanleroyII
alanleroyII
Jul 29, 2014
6:24am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego

However, DonDiego is no longer confident in the honesty of Goldman. And DonDiego would counsel Ukraine to hold on to as much fertile farmland as possible; in fact this could be a deal-breaker. Fertile soil is going to become very, very important soon.

Alrighty then. We'll use Bain...and as for fertile farmland, they're eventually going to lose it anyway. Might as well get paid for it.

Boilerman
Boilerman
Jul 29, 2014
6:30am
Block User
How does Ukraine assure that Russia is providing free gas 25 years from now. Who would enforce a lien on Russian gas?


Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Does Alanleroy believe that the Ukraine would trust Russia on a 25 year deal?

The deal would be structured in such a way to guarantee payment. Like they way Bill Clinton got liens on Mexican Oil when we bailed them out of The Peso Crisis of 1995...or using the IMF and the BIS as arbiters and a conduit for payment. Think outside the box. man. The people who live in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine want no part of it. Keeping it together with an iron fist is going to work about as well as Post Soviet Yugoslavia. Everyone wins with my solution...who wins with yours? Oh that's right. You have no solution.


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