Why do certain groups of young men get shot by the police?

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Originally posted by: albeadle33
We've just watched the incredibly inexperienced, foolishly blinded liberal pj get undressed once again for his desperation comments. How much humiliation can he endure?


Its probably better that you cheer other people's opinions rather than attempt to formulate your own like you did in that other thread you tried to start today about the Ferguson funeral. Did you get lonely over there? Nobody wants to respond to your thoughtful insights on race? poor thing.

And please quit mentally undressing me. Its creepy.
Gee PJ, even quoting Jefferson I wonder what you would be saying if a group of neo nazi's were the ones protesting and looting. Wait! the Nazi party tends to actually FOLLOW the law when it comes to protesting and not try and rip off stores for the hell of it.

I would like to remind PJ, that the rights of free speech when it causes harm to others isn't quite free anymore. (like yelling fire in a movie theater, just for the hell of it) Protesting is ok EXCEPT when one starts breaking into stores and taking stuff....

I would like to remind PJ that those looters were very lucky they didn't wind up in the morgue for stealing.
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: DonDIego
Umm, . . . OK. What does "thats the disqualifying factor according to DonDiego" mean? What "factor" is being "disqualified" and from "what"?


Disqualifying factor: The uprise in Ferguson is not centered around a white, anti-government, armed bigot.
Disqualified from what: the "Ferguson Event" is just like the "Boston Tea Party".
So, . . . if the uprising in Ferguson were centered around a white, anti-government, armed bigot, the FE would be just like the Boston Tea party? DonDiego doesn't think so.
DonDiego remains confused. To his knowledge he has never supported a White, anti-government, armed bigot and he would likely not support one if he were leading the FE.
The problems DonDiego has with the FE are
i.The peaceful protestors would be wise to wait until the facts are established. What they are protesting against may not be true. DonDiego is waiting for the facts.
ii. The looters/arsonists/shooters are violating the Law.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: DonDIego
Huh? A militant quote? DonDiego quoted President Jefferson. And DonDiego quoted a Christian Science Monitor article addressing Western States attempting to take over Federal lands.
Neither supports Mr. Bundy's "rebellion".
Again...in bold. DonDiego's militant (or is it non-militant?) quote he felt inspired to share on the Clive Bundy thread. I cant even begin to understand DonDiego's confusion here. Perhaps the fact that Thomas Jefferson is the author somehow makes this quote impervious to an accurate description of its rationalization of militant, violent rebellion?

"And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure."
__ Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

Umm, . . . pjstroh is the one who brought up President Jefferson's quote in this thread. DonDiego has already suggested as there is no opposition to Government policy invoked in the Ferguson uprising, the quote does not apply to the matter.

Of course the quote rationalizes citizen rebellion if necessary to preserve their liberties and set their rulers right as to the facts. DonDiego suggests, . . . again, . . this is not the case in the FE.
It may or may not have been the case in Clark County, Nevada. But there no one looted or committed arson or shot anyone. The only violence DonDiego is aware of is the BLM killed a few of Mr. Bundy's cows.
Whatever happened there anyway? Was it resolved? Has anyone been imprisoned? Are the cattle still grazing on Federal land?
What a piss poor excuse for a rebellion ! Hardly a BTP.
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: albeadle33
We've just watched the incredibly inexperienced, foolishly blinded liberal pj get undressed once again for his desperation comments. How much humiliation can he endure?


Its probably better that you cheer other people's opinions rather than attempt to formulate your own like you did in that other thread you tried to start today about the Ferguson funeral. Did you get lonely over there? Nobody wants to respond to your thoughtful insights on race? poor thing.

And please quit mentally undressing me. Its creepy.


Translation: PJ takes a direct hit right between the eyes!


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Originally posted by: DonDiego


Of course the quote rationalizes citizen rebellion if necessary to preserve their liberties and set their rulers right as to the facts. DonDiego suggests, . . . again, . . this is not the case in the FE.
It may or may not have been the case in Clark County, Nevada. But there no one looted or committed arson or shot anyone.


The quote is certainly not relevant to this thread. DonDiego has made that very clear. Less clear (at least for DonDIego) is its relevance to the Nevada incident. And that was my whole point. I fail to see how civilians taking up arms against their government in either case is remotely justifiable or in the spirit of our founding fathers.

And DonDIego is mistaken about another observation. Someone(s) were shot in Clark COunty: Two cops. 2 protestors from the Bundy ranch were the perps as I recall. Of course, I wouldn't be ignorant enough to paint all the protestors at the Bundy Ranch based upon the profile of a few scumbag criminals. But it would seem profiles have been created for the crowds in Ferguson. Profiles come easy for some people on this board.



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Originally posted by: pjstroh
[The quote is certainly not relevant to this thread. DonDiego has made that very clear. Less clear (at least for DonDIego) is its relevance to the Nevada incident. And that was my whole point. I fail to see how civilians taking up arms against their government in either case is remotely justifiable or in the spirit of our founding fathers.
So why did pjstroh bring up President Jefferson's quote in this thread?
DonDiego supposes Mr. Bundy and his allies thought it relevant to their "rebellion", . . . or at least presented their position as opposing an over-reaching Federal Government. DonDiego supposes their actual cause was more along the lines of avoiding Federally-imposed grazing fees. So far as DonDiego knows Mr. Bundy is not paying the grazing fees, and the BLM agents left. The Government should enforce the Laws as written. DonDiego didn't pick a side beyond this.
[n.b. There is a continuing dispute between citizens and Governments within many Western States over the intrusion into their affairs and tax-base as a result of the Federal Government claiming much of the land. DonDiego does't know the details or the Laws applicable. He supposes the Federal Government is intrusive. But he cannot take a side without knowing more, and he's not that interested.]

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Originally posted by: pjstroh
And DonDIego is mistaken about another observation. Someone(s) were shot in Clark COunty: Two cops. 2 protestors from the Bundy ranch were the perps as I recall. Of course, I wouldn't be ignorant enough to paint all the protestors at the Bundy Ranch based upon the profile of a few scumbag criminals. But it would seem profiles have been created for the crowds in Ferguson. Profiles come easy for some people on this board.
The BLM had decided not to enforce the Court Order on 14 April 2014. The standoff was concluded.
On June 8, 2014, Jerad and Amanda Miller killed two Las Vegas police officers and a civilian before taking their own lives during a shootout with police. Mr. Bundy's son said that the couple had been asked to leave the Bundy ranch a few days after they'd arrived during the standoff, because they were "very radical" and did not align themselves with the protest's main issues. It would seem Mr. Bundy profiled them correctly.

DonDiego has created no profiles. He has no objection to peaceful protest. He supports apprehension, prosecution, conviction, and punishment of lawbreakers, . . . especially looters and arsonists. If it is determined that Officer Wilson acted improperly, appropriate legal action should follow.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: DonDiego


Of course the quote rationalizes citizen rebellion if necessary to preserve their liberties and set their rulers right as to the facts. DonDiego suggests, . . . again, . . this is not the case in the FE.
It may or may not have been the case in Clark County, Nevada. But there no one looted or committed arson or shot anyone.


The quote is certainly not relevant to this thread. DonDiego has made that very clear. Less clear (at least for DonDIego) is its relevance to the Nevada incident. And that was my whole point. I fail to see how civilians taking up arms against their government in either case is remotely justifiable or in the spirit of our founding fathers.

Civilians standing up to defend themselves from the government is not the same thing as taking up arms against the government. Your whole point is a straw man.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh And DonDIego is mistaken about another observation. Someone(s) were shot in Clark COunty: Two cops. 2 protestors from the Bundy ranch were the perps as I recall. Of course, I wouldn't be ignorant enough to paint all the protestors at the Bundy Ranch based upon the profile of a few scumbag criminals. But it would seem profiles have been created for the crowds in Ferguson. Profiles come easy for some people on this board.

As DonDiego correctly pointed out, the two murderous radicals were told to leave the peaceful protest at the Bundy ranch. Well before the peaceful protest ended. Peaceful Protest. There is absolutely no comparison between the two events. None.

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Originally posted by: DonDiego

So why did pjstroh bring up President Jefferson's quote in this thread?


I was simply pointing to DonDiego's different perspectives on different threads regarding people objecting to perceived abuse by law enforcement. I know this confuses DonDiego. Sorry - I cant help that.

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Originally posted by: DonDiego

DonDiego supposes Mr. Bundy and his allies thought it relevant to their "rebellion", . . .

Mr Bundy did not present the Thomas Jefferson quote. The quote was DonDiego's contribution to that subject. Thats why I cited DonDiego and not Clive Bundy.

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Originally posted by: DonDiego

On June 8, 2014, Jerad and Amanda Miller killed two Las Vegas police officers and a civilian before taking their own lives during a shootout with police. Mr. Bundy's son said that the couple had been asked to leave the Bundy ranch a few days after they'd arrived during the standoff, because they were "very radical" and did not align themselves with the protest's main issues. It would seem Mr. Bundy profiled them correctly.


True! But the protest leaders in Ferguson (including members of Michael Brown's family) have also renounced violence and anyone who partakes in it. So It would appear they have also profiled the scumbags amongst them correctly. DonDiego seems to have an easier time seperating the scum from the protestors in Nevada than he does in Ferguson...which is likely why he posts things like this....





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Originally posted by: jphelan
IMHO it is not about race, but upbringing. Some parents bring up their children with respect for authority and the law and others do not. Far too often, those with contempt for authority step over the line and there are consequences --- "Don't taze me bro"!


Could not agree more!
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
On June 8, 2014, Jerad and Amanda Miller killed two Las Vegas police officers and a civilian before taking their own lives during a shootout with police. Mr. Bundy's son said that the couple had been asked to leave the Bundy ranch a few days after they'd arrived during the standoff, because they were "very radical" and did not align themselves with the protest's main issues. It would seem Mr. Bundy profiled them correctly.


True! But the protest leaders in Ferguson (including members of Michael Brown's family) have also renounced violence and anyone who partakes in it. So It would appear they have also profiled the scumbags amongst them correctly. DonDiego seems to have an easier time seperating the scum from the protestors in Nevada than he does in Ferguson...which is likely why he posts things like this....


Throughout this thread DonDiego has repeatedly made a clear distinction between those who are protesting peaceably and those who are creating mayhem on the streets of Ferguson.

Even if DonDiego were to disagree with the peaceful protestors he would support their right to peacefully assemble. Even if an investigation were to determine that Officer Wilson actions were justifiable, . . . DonDiego would still support the right of the protestors to assemble and march. There is really no point in claiming one supports free speech if one doesn't support free speech for folks who are wrong.
DonDiego opposes looters/arsonists/thugs-in-general; DonDiego advocates rigorous law enforcement against them.
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