Boilerman, as we all know not every case of Covid-19 ends in death. We've seen that even a non-fatal course of the illness can be horribly painful and the negative effects long lasting after what is termed 'recovery.' Can take a breadwinner out of the game, take healthcare personnel out of the system, many disruptions of life, loss of income, and naturally the massive economic hit, etc. Deaths are tragic, but not the whole story, IMHO.
Originally posted by: Boilerman
The NY Times has a national audience and is largely considered the most influencial paper in the country. It's the only paper that I know that's publishing national data, but maybe your paper is doing a good job.
You say that you're not getting my point. Isn't this entire thing about deaths, or isn't it the most important data? What is more important in this fight with corona?
Okay Kevin, I'll clarify. No money, no one eats and everyone dies.
It's not all or nothing, moron. We can endure a short period of relative deprivation. It's not a choice between "no money" and a full-blown deadly Trump economy.
This is not, in fact, entirely about deaths. That's the result of Trump's failures. They've already happened, or are going to happen. We need to concentrate on what we can prevent. First we get people to engage in responsible behavior. Then we crush Trump like a grape. Then we fix the system that led to this deadly fuckup.
Candy, your information above doesn't tell me if things are improving in your state. There is no trend data. Let me ask you a question. How many deaths per day were happening in your state (weekly average) six weeks ago, and how many deaths per day are happening in your state now? Are more people dying, or are fewer people day? This tells us if things are improving or worsening. I'm guessing that you don't know, because the Liberal media is largely hiding, or at least ignoring this improving death data. They will show you a daily new case chart (looks horrible), but they not won't show us daily death data (looks good). We need trend lines on more than just for new cases.
Does positive test cases prove that more are getting sick? I suggest no. If testing has doubled across the united states in the past six weeks, don't you think we'll find more positive cases............even if the number of sick people hasn't changed?
Death "trend charts" is the best measure of what's happening, assuming there is no cheating on the data.
You desperately want "proof" that your Republican heroes and your golden god Trump aren't fucking up massively and causing tens of thousands of deaths.
That can be "accomplished" by cherry-picking the data. If you focus on deaths, well...more people are dying. The RATE may or may not be going down, but that's a function of what was happening a month ago. I've tried to explain to you that deaths is a lagging indicator.
The recent drastic increase in cases will be replected in a spike in deaths in 3-5 weeks, as has been the case before. One thing you may not know is that the percentage of test positives has been higher than ever before.
You vote Republican. Republican leadership causes sickness and death. Period.
Bull- to this idiotic comment from Kevin-"You vote Republican. Republican leadership causes sickness and death. Period" ---- I believe that the largest number of deaths in the U.S. from the virus are in New York city and New Jersey - BOTH DemocRatic run. So keep on voting DemocRatic - DemocRats also run 18 of the top 20 crime ridden cities in America. These are undeniable facts.
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis
You desperately want "proof" that your Republican heroes and your golden god Trump aren't fucking up massively and causing tens of thousands of deaths.
That can be "accomplished" by cherry-picking the data. If you focus on deaths, well...more people are dying. The RATE may or may not be going down, but that's a function of what was happening a month ago. I've tried to explain to you that deaths is a lagging indicator.
The recent drastic increase in cases will be replected in a spike in deaths in 3-5 weeks, as has been the case before. One thing you may not know is that the percentage of test positives has been higher than ever before.
You vote Republican. Republican leadership causes sickness and death. Period.
Kevin writes that the death "rate may or may not be going down". Do you not care enough about deaths to look at the data provided in the WHO link that I posted? You talk about people dying, yet you don't put energy into knowing the facts about trends.
Once again, deaths are going down. Spend 5 minutes and you can confirm this. Once you've done this, you'll be more equipped to participate in a serious conversation about what's going on. How about ICU unit capacity rates? How about hospitalizations? I trust that you don't know any of this information. It's all going down in the US. Spend a few minutes in educating yourself, and then come back and act like an adult.
Actually, ICUs in Texas, Arizona, and Florida are almost full. Hospitalizations are increasing in 26 states. "It's all going down" is about as accurate as "freezing temperatures and blizzards across the US."
Deaths right now may not be occuring with as great frequency as a few weeks ago. But CASES are drastically increasing, and that WILL result in many more deaths.
We also have the lies and coverups of red state officials artificially decreasing the reported death toll.
Arkansas. I'll give you the best from my memory. We were doing very well in the earlier days. Even were cited nationally for our good numbers, our flat curve. Then the openings happened, and all bets were off. And getting worse.
Daily average of deaths six weeks ago was like 0-1. Our first death in the state was big news. Now we are seeing 0-7 daily (yesterday was the highest number so far at 7). Some days still have zero deaths.
Total cases as of yesterday 18,740
Total hospitalized is 284, 63 on ventilators, down from 66 the day before.
Total deaths is 249
I respectfully disagree that deaths is the best measure of "what's happening." I say cases. Every recovery or death is an outcome of a case. Some cases suffer horribly if they become active, not just positive.
Are you thinking that death numbers are subtracted from case numbers for purposes of publication?
Was it Dr. Fauci or Dr. Gupta who said something to the effect "We opened up just as the virus was surging. Like leaning into a left hook." That is right, IMHO.
Edited to correct the number on ventilators.
Our reopening failures show the flaws in our national character and ethos. We have this anti-government "FREEDUMB!" mentality that drives a LOT of people to disobey even emergency orders from the authorities. What was on all the signs waved by the anti-lockdown protestors? How they had been SOOOOO inconvenienced, boo fucking hoo.
Of course, Candy, cases are what matters. Boiler and Trump want to grasp at straws and find anything that is even superficially positive. I think if we can stop making our responses at the state level dependent on the governor's fealty to Trump, that would help. How rabidly pro-Trump is your governor (I know he's a Republican)? Is he a fawning, drooling Trump slave like the governors of Texas and Florida, or is he his own man? How diligent has he been with shutdowns, cautious reopening, mask mandates, etc.?
At least we now know that the premature reopening had the exact consequences that Fauci and others said it would. And yes, more people are going to die as a result. We are an idiot nation, run by an idiot whom tens of millions of idiots feverishly support. We deserve this horrible outcome we're experiencing.
I don't know how toady our gov. is toward Trump. My sense from listening/watching his (the gov's) daily report on TV is he tries to be all things to all people of the state, i.e. commerce/economy vs health safety. He is very much the gentleman at all times in public/on air.
We have a good Fauci counterpart, state health dept. head Covid MD who does the daily TV report alongside the gov. He strikes me as leaning more to slower openings and than the gov has, but like Fauci if they want to keep their jobs they speak cautiously and supportively of whatever the boss is saying on TV, while more urgently imploring people to wear masks and do the distancing when it is their time to speak. Almost like reading between the lines.
Some here had pressed the gov. to declare a real (?) shutdown earlier on but that never happened , and the gov. has said he is reluctant to do so for economic reasons. It was only yesterday that he approved mandating masks inside businesses, not just encouraging compliance. So now businesses have real authority to say "no mask, no service." Some persons are 'deputized' to do unannounced drop-ins to check on compliance, etc., and I think they can actually do something if the place is not complying. As I said, too little too late, but better late than never, maybe.
I realize that the business end of things is something I'm poorly authorized to pass judgment on, so I feel for any governor having to make these decisions that affect the livelihood of their citizens.
I just corrected the ventilator numbers in my reply above, which I had typoed.
