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2014***ObamaCare***2014

hoops2
hoops2
Jan 18, 2014
9:45pm
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There are now reports that high percentages (45% in NY) of people who signed up for obamacare are not uninsured but people who had their coverage cancelled because of obamacare.
chefantwon
chefantwon
Jan 19, 2014
2:45am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
There are now reports that high percentages (45% in NY) of people who signed up for obamacare are not uninsured but people who had their coverage cancelled because of obamacare.


That's the entire issue. In order for this monster to work, you need a large pool of people to pay into the system to take care of the people who can't and who will take the most from it. (Social Security and Medicare ring a bell here) You would have figured that those idiots in DC would learn from those failed programs, yet the Government is just like a drunk looking for the next drink. If people would have read the damn POS bill, you would have seen this coming. However, people are just starting to get the picture.

pjstroh
pjstroh
Jan 19, 2014
3:18am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
There are now reports that high percentages (45% in NY) of people who signed up for obamacare are not uninsured but people who had their coverage cancelled because of obamacare.


Your health insurance is almost always signed in a one year term...so it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that people whose insurance expired had to sign up again .... this time on an exchange of private companies where they can pick the one that suits them best....(incidentally - something that Paul Ryan outlined for Medicare in his budget that Hoops was all gung ho for).

What percentage of New Yorkers are unhappy with their more comprehensive plans? And if New York is consistent with the rest of the country those people are paying less money than they did before....with more benefits....or as right wingers call it: "a nightmare"
chefantwon
chefantwon
Jan 19, 2014
3:32am
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Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
There are now reports that high percentages (45% in NY) of people who signed up for obamacare are not uninsured but people who had their coverage cancelled because of obamacare.


Your health insurance is almost always signed in a one year term...so it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that people whose insurance expired had to sign up again .... this time on an exchange of private companies where they can pick the one that suits them best....(incidentally - something that Paul Ryan outlined for Medicare in his budget that Hoops was all gung ho for).

What percentage of New Yorkers are unhappy with their more comprehensive plans? And if New York is consistent with the rest of the country those people are paying less money than they did before....with more benefits....or as right wingers call it: "a nightmare"


I would like to see the real numbers for this "less money and more benefits" as can you afford $10k in an annual deductable...

pjstroh
pjstroh
Jan 19, 2014
4:09am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
I did just look at insurance for myself: 51 year old male, state of Ohio, estimated income of (not saying)...

premiums before tax credit of $233/month:

$342/month silver $3250 ded/yr $4750 max out of pocket/yr
$793/month gold $250/ded/yr $6350 max out of pocket/yr

of course the subject of tax CREDITS typically means you pay the stated amounts and then get a write off or a refund at the end of the year.

Depending upon the income, rates like this can be one of next to impossible when one throws in the part about yearly deductables.

When I was making $9.00/hr the tax credit goes to $319/month.

These rates come from the healthcare.gov web site........

Btw, I don't smoke.


I cant even begin to understand your point.

By your own math...someone making $9/hr qualifies for a silver plan at a cost of $23/month. Whereas before that same person would be paying $342 month for that plan. So they are better off in the previous system where they pay 15X as much for the same insurance?

chefantwon
chefantwon
Jan 19, 2014
4:19am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
I did just look at insurance for myself: 51 year old male, state of Ohio, estimated income of (not saying)...

premiums before tax credit of $233/month:

$342/month silver $3250 ded/yr $4750 max out of pocket/yr
$793/month gold $250/ded/yr $6350 max out of pocket/yr

of course the subject of tax CREDITS typically means you pay the stated amounts and then get a write off or a refund at the end of the year.

Depending upon the income, rates like this can be one of next to impossible when one throws in the part about yearly deductables.

When I was making $9.00/hr the tax credit goes to $319/month.

These rates come from the healthcare.gov web site........

Btw, I don't smoke.


I cant even begin to understand your point.

By your own math...someone making $9/hr qualifies for a silver plan at a cost of $23/month. Whereas before that same person would be paying $342 month for that plan. So they are better off in the previous system where they pay 15X as much for the same insurance?


PJ, you are missing the one specific phrase here: TAX CREDIT.

The government in it's infinite wisdom tends to play the PAY FIRST and get back later game. So, you have to pay the premium and then at some later date, get this back.

For those of you in Loma Linda, this comes down to paying a monthy premium of $342 a month. It simply does not matter that you get this back, you have to pay this sum NOW and every month. Exactly the same way you end up getting a tax refund at the end of the year.

Does this make sense now PJ?
pjstroh
pjstroh
Jan 19, 2014
5:07am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon

PJ, you are missing the one specific phrase here: TAX CREDIT.

The government in it's infinite wisdom tends to play the PAY FIRST and get back later game. So, you have to pay the premium and then at some later date, get this back.

For those of you in Loma Linda, this comes down to paying a monthy premium of $342 a month. It simply does not matter that you get this back, you have to pay this sum NOW and every month. Exactly the same way you end up getting a tax refund at the end of the year.

Does this make sense now PJ?


Watch the little video in this link

It will explain to you how the subsidies work...and how they are paid each month instead of at the end of the year as you claim. Which then brings me back to my original question....isn't the person in your example better off paying $23 instead of $342 ?
hoops2
hoops2
Jan 19, 2014
5:23am
Block User
Someone making $9 an hour qualifies for Medicaid which provides lousy care.

One of the reasons for upending our health care system was to eliminate the uninsured. The 7 million sign up goal was supposed to be uninsured people. Now we are finding out that almost half of the sign ups are people who had their insurance cancelled.

So we are nowhere near the goal of adding 7m uninsured.

We still don't know what the net paid is yet
alanleroy
alanleroy
Jan 19, 2014
5:49am
Block User
I have a simple suggestion that will solve Don Diego's objection to the 'Individual Mandate' and PJ's desire to get more Americans in the Insurance pool. Repeal the 1986 EMTALA.

That was the law that required Emergency Rooms to treat people who do not have insurance and could not afford to pay. I imagine we'll get a lot more new sign ups once some of the uninsured start piling up on the ER steps. It's their own damn fault.

To summarize: No individual mandate or fines...only personal responsibility reinforced by periodic tragic consequences for the irresponsible.
BobOrme
BobOrme
Jan 19, 2014
8:54am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
I don't work for the budget office and don't pretend to have all the numbers in front of me as to what the total balance sheet of the ACA will look like. I find it incredibly amusing that Don Diego fancies himself in such a position.

Will the ACA ultimately be deficit neutral? I won't dare to predict. The CBO says it will be. I know Don DiegoCare was not deficit neutral (not by a long shot)...and there was an individual mandate for all insured people to pick up the slack for all of the uninsured emergency care. Don Diego always hates it when I bring that up. He doesn't like to talk about it much. And to make it much worse Don Diego's Republican leaders in Congress added a Medicare Part D program that had absolutely no pay-fors of any kind whatsoever. Prior to the ACA being passed that outrageous blemish on the countries balance sheet was costing tax payers 100's of billions. Don Diego doesn't like to talk about that either. Maybe because its "awkward" given his deep desire to go back to those fiscally responsible days when people were free from tyranny.

ANd I continue to enjoy Don Diego's entertaining Orwellian metaphors when the government requires people to buy things they don't want to...like health insurance....or auto insurance...or homeowners insurance... oh wait, its just one of those. Yeah, that's kinda awkward too.

Auto insurance is not forced on every person. Not everyone drives or owns a car. Homeowners insurance is not forced on every person. Not everyone owns a home. Maybe you believe everyone who does not own or drive a car, or who does not own a home, should be forced to purchase such insurance to make it more affordable to those that need that coverage.

For several years you've been implying that every person who doesn't have health insurance is a drain on other taxpayers. That is patently false.

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