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I had a delightful conversation with a health Insurance company rep this morning

jatki
jatki
Mar 31, 2014
4:29am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
We could have fixed the most critical healthcare problems facing our society with a few pages. That could have had broad bipartisan support...
Utter bullshit. Remember when Mitch McConnell said that making Obama a one term president was his single most important goal. And...

  • Obama supported the health care of the Bob Dole and Mitt Romney - and Republicans opposed it.
  • Obama supported the Cap and Trade of John McCain - and Republicans opposed it.
  • Obama supported the immigration reform of President George W. Bush - and Republicans opposed it.
  • Obama support the assault rifle legislation of President Ronald Reagan - and Republicans opposed it.

    Bipartisan enough for you?

    Meanwhile, Republicans thought that Chuck Hagel was too liberal to be the Secretary of Defense, and most Virginia Republicans just voted for a guy for governor who wanted oral sex to be illegal. Oh, and a lot of them are still cool with shutting down the US government at a cost of $24 billion, because they don't have the votes to change the law.

    One party is centrist, the other resembles an anger management therapy group. And even you, alanleroy, can't be confused about that.

    • Neither party is 'centrist'. Both are owned by their special interest masters over on K street. Even you can't be confused about that. 57,000 lobbyists and 535 legislators...
    Lobbying is bipartisan! You should love it, alanleroy. Just like repealing Glass Steagall and invading Iran was bipartisan. Ain't bipartisanship wonderful? But by centrist, I was referring to the fact that it is Democratic policies that a majority of Americans support.

    For example, most Americans support:
  • immigration reform
  • raising the minimum wage
  • gun safety laws
  • environmental regulation
  • closing corporate tax loopholes
  • marriage equality
  • and....Obamacare! According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 59% of Americans want to keep it as is, or keep it and improve it.

    Most Americans also oppose idiot military posturing in places like Iran, and oppose closing down the government or defaulting on our debts when one party doesn't get its way.

    One party largely matches public opinion, the other ignores it. And claiming that both parties are equally culpable is just the laziest possible way of trying to feel superior.


    • Well riddle me this then, if what you say is true, why don't the Dems sweep each and every election? Why did they get the boot back in '10? Again, you are just choosing to believe because in your heart of hearts you think you are correct and everyone else is full of shit and don't know what they're talking about or totally clueless. It's a sad thing actually because you can't see the "other side" viewpoint, summarily dismissing as baseless,illogical, stupid or whatever and with that, you will always be handicapped by that way of thinking.

    alanleroyII
    alanleroyII
    Mar 31, 2014
    4:48am
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: Chilcoot


    What I said is that criticising Obamacare because it (supposedly) required 1,900 pages of paper to be printed is a stupid criticism. Which it is.

    That being said, I can understand why you would prefer to challenge things I haven't said here to things I have.

    If you were truthful, you would have characterized my argument as follows:

    Laws should be short documents with bipartisan support that focus on solving a few major problems. Obamacare is none of the above.

    You chose mischaracterize my approach by just calling the fact that I object to the obscene length of this boondoggle bill 'stupid'. That's a fine argument there. 'Stupid'. Ok.

    Then, I pointed out how our northern neighbors used the exact approach I suggested (Short (13 pages), Bipartisan (Unanimous), Focused) to completely reform their system of Heath Insurance.

    I suggested that Chilcoot prefers the 1900 page, partisan, unfocused boondoggle to a simple, profound, bipartisan law. He must, because it is the exact opposite of what I suggested. And the exact opposite of the ACA.

    I'll let the readers decide who is being honest and who is not.


    pjstroh
    pjstroh
    Mar 31, 2014
    6:38am
    Block User
    Republicans were given 50% representation on the original committee to formulate the healthcare law (a percentage greater than their elected representation in the Senate - a gesture far more generous than anything Democrats got when they were the minority party under GWB). Republicans were not kicked off that committee. They abandoned it. And days before they abandoned it one of their members (Chuck Grassley) was openly advocating for a mandated requirement for all citizens to buy insurance.

    In the wake of the GOP abandonment the President and Democrats had a choice....they could pursue the agenda they were elected on - or not. Alanleroy likes to rewrite history and pretend a bipartisan law was possible. Its pretty hard to work with people who refuse to sit at the table. But Alan's criticism is par for his course. When insurance companies dont pay doctors in Bakersfield its Obama's fault. And when Republicans take their ball and go home its Obama's fault. Notice a pattern? Alan doesn't seem to understand the concept of taking responsibility for one's own actions...either that, or he's just making a laughable, partisan point. Regardless the conclusion is always the same - Its Obama's fault that other people behave badly.
    Dan Svatass
    Dan Svatass
    Mar 31, 2014
    8:02am
    Block User
    It took me a while, but I think I'm starting to understand. The alanleroys prefer simple.


    Their car.




    Their house.




    Their computer.




    Their missile defense system.




    Their home entertainment system.




    Their health plan.




    Not their motto.






    forkushV
    forkushV
    Mar 31, 2014
    8:15am
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: jatki99
    Quote
    Originally posted by: forkushV
    Quote
    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
    Quote
    Originally posted by: forkushV
    Quote
    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
    We could have fixed the most critical healthcare problems facing our society with a few pages. That could have had broad bipartisan support...
    Utter bullshit. Remember when Mitch McConnell said that making Obama a one term president was his single most important goal. And...

  • Obama supported the health care of the Bob Dole and Mitt Romney - and Republicans opposed it.
  • Obama supported the Cap and Trade of John McCain - and Republicans opposed it.
  • Obama supported the immigration reform of President George W. Bush - and Republicans opposed it.
  • Obama support the assault rifle legislation of President Ronald Reagan - and Republicans opposed it.

    Bipartisan enough for you?

    Meanwhile, Republicans thought that Chuck Hagel was too liberal to be the Secretary of Defense, and most Virginia Republicans just voted for a guy for governor who wanted oral sex to be illegal. Oh, and a lot of them are still cool with shutting down the US government at a cost of $24 billion, because they don't have the votes to change the law.

    One party is centrist, the other resembles an anger management therapy group. And even you, alanleroy, can't be confused about that.

    • Neither party is 'centrist'. Both are owned by their special interest masters over on K street. Even you can't be confused about that. 57,000 lobbyists and 535 legislators...
    Lobbying is bipartisan! You should love it, alanleroy. Just like repealing Glass Steagall and invading Iran was bipartisan. Ain't bipartisanship wonderful? But by centrist, I was referring to the fact that it is Democratic policies that a majority of Americans support.

    For example, most Americans support:
  • immigration reform
  • raising the minimum wage
  • gun safety laws
  • environmental regulation
  • closing corporate tax loopholes
  • marriage equality
  • and....Obamacare! According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 59% of Americans want to keep it as is, or keep it and improve it.

    Most Americans also oppose idiot military posturing in places like Iran, and oppose closing down the government or defaulting on our debts when one party doesn't get its way.

    One party largely matches public opinion, the other ignores it. And claiming that both parties are equally culpable is just the laziest possible way of trying to feel superior.


    • Well riddle me this then, if what you say is true, why don't the Dems sweep each and every election? Why did they get the boot back in '10? Again, you are just choosing to believe because in your heart of hearts you think you are correct and everyone else is full of shit and don't know what they're talking about or totally clueless. It's a sad thing actually because you can't see the "other side" viewpoint, summarily dismissing as baseless,illogical, stupid or whatever and with that, you will always be handicapped by that way of thinking.
  • Democrats have won popular vote for president in FIVE OUT OF THE LAST SIX ELECTIONS.
  • In 2012 in House races, Democrats received over 1,000,000 more votes than Republicans. The GOP majority is due to gerrymandering.
  • In 2012, the Democratic presidential candidate won by almost 5 million votes - in spite of a gawdawful economy.

    But elections aren't always about partisan issues - sometimes people are just pissed about the economy. So back to the issues:
  • 71% of Americans want an increase in the minimum wage (Gallup).
  • 85% want gun background checks (NBC/Wall Street Journal).
  • 54% want a ban on assault style weapons (NBC/WSJ).
  • 68% want a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. (Maddow/MSNBC)

    What party does that sound like? Want more?
    • alanleroyII
    alanleroyII
    Mar 31, 2014
    12:02pm
    Block User
    And Chilcoot, simply can't simplify. His motto: Let's do it the Hard Way. That's the difference between a lawyer and an engineer.

    Chilcoot Mailing a letter



    Chilcoot reviewing the ACA



    Chilcoot at dinner, using his napkin.






    alanleroyII
    alanleroyII
    Mar 31, 2014
    12:07pm
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: pjstroh
    Alan doesn't seem to understand the concept of taking responsibility for one's own actions...either that, or he's just making a laughable, partisan point. Regardless the conclusion is always the same - Its Obama's fault that other people behave badly.

    Where does the buck stop? According to you anywhere but the top. But you go ahead and live in your fantasy world where only the Republicans are responsible for every case of failed leadership. Clinton worked with Republicans. Bush worked with Democrats. Regan worked with Democrats. It can happen.

    If I had been in Obama's shoes there's no way I approve a one sided vote like the ACA. I send them back to the table and cajole them and use the bully pulpit until they come up with something all can support. I don't just declare victory and move on. Now you claim that's wasn't possible. I say it's a failure of leadership. Democrat Leadership AND Republican Leadership...and the country has suffered for it.

    pjstroh
    pjstroh
    Mar 31, 2014
    12:31pm
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
    Quote
    Originally posted by: pjstroh
    Alan doesn't seem to understand the concept of taking responsibility for one's own actions...either that, or he's just making a laughable, partisan point. Regardless the conclusion is always the same - Its Obama's fault that other people behave badly.

    Where does the buck stop? According to you anywhere but the top. But you go ahead and live in your fantasy world where only the Republicans are responsible for every case of failed leadership. Clinton worked with Republicans. Bush worked with Democrats. Regan worked with Democrats. It can happen.

    If I had been in Obama's shoes there's no way I approve a one sided vote like the ACA. I send them back to the table and cajole them and use the bully pulpit until they come up with something all can support. I don't just declare victory and move on. Now you claim that's wasn't possible. I say it's a failure of leadership. Democrat Leadership AND Republican Leadership...and the country has suffered for it.


    Precisely what I said. You believe its Obama's failure that Republicans walked away from the table. You're priceless.

    Don't you run business, Alan? I'm just curious....have you ever fired someone for not doing the job you hired them to do? Or do you just blame yourself for their incompetence?
    Dan Svatass
    Dan Svatass
    Mar 31, 2014
    1:22pm
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
    So, by the time the special interests and an army of lawyers got through with the ACA it was 1900 pages
    The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) turns out to only be 907 pages. Less than half what the alanleroys said.

    Moreover, some 700 of those 907 pages deal unrelated stuff like overhauling student loans. Really, what we know as Obamacare is only about 200 of these 907 pages. Not 1,900 pages as they alanleroys claim.

    I'm sure knowing that the law's 89% smaller than the alanleroys claimed makes a big difference to them.
    forkushV
    forkushV
    Mar 31, 2014
    2:21pm
    Block User
    Bad news for alanleroy, DonDiego, malibber, hoops, jatki, et al, but good news for America:

    Seven Million.
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