No more craps etiquette at Caesars Palace

There are "rules of etiquette" in most games - gambling or not. These "rules" are intended to make the game more enjoyable for all and most follow simple rules of logic or manners.

Have I set my dice, prepared to throw only to find transactions still taking place? Sure. Was I bothered? A little. But I just started my routine again...no biggie. If I were to throw and hit someone's hand and end up with a 7-out, I would be bothered just as MoneyLA and realize that in the end it was my mistake - just like MoneyLA.

Are some of these "rules" based on superstition? Of course. You're in a casino where we've all seen people rub the screens on slot or video poker machines.

Craps players are probably some of the more superstitious. I'd guess there are more superstitious craps players than not. As stated before, when first learning the game I was taught etiquette very early on. It's merely meant to help add to the enjoyment for everyone. For those that are playing in a game that aren't superstitious, following these "rules" does not have a negative affect.

When a table is "hot" and things are moving along very well, it can be very enjoyable for all. If the rhythm gets choppy and start to feel cumbersome, the enjoyment is not as high - at least in my humble opinion.

......and gamblers who complain about how others play need to find a game that the play of others does not upset them.

The only rule of etiqutte I do not follow 100% is the one that says, "Only buy in after the point is made"

This one unwritten rule is specious to say the least.

(1) If the table has only a few players and a new player shows up it is absolutely ignored most of the time.

(2) If the table is mostly full and going well, and a new player squeezes in ( upsetting the karma), then the rule is begging to be enforced.

(3) What if there is plenty of room to get in and the shooter is making number after number, BUT not his point....So You stand there for 20 minutes( or longer) and wait for the point to be made?

(4) We all have to buy in the game at some point as a new player and enter the action that has been ongoing....Is it not rational to believe that this factor will even itself out over years of play for all concerned?.... Sometimes a player will be the shooter when a new player enters the game...some of the time they will not....Sometimes you are the new player entering the game during a hot roll...Sometimes you have been at that table for a long while......SO,..What is the big deal if you enter the game between rolls and make a few bets?? NOT going to change ANYTHING over years of play..

(5) It will all average out over the years ( being the new player, or being the established player at the table) ... I say get rid of the notion of having to wait until the shooter makes his point before starting your play.

You must have me confused with someone else. I never made any claims about being good at craps or being a dice controller. In fact, I've said that I've only seen two true dice controllers in my life: the mystery shooter at Caesars (I don't know who he was, saw him there one time) and the surgeon from Washington who I've known for years. All I ever said about myself was that I ran into trouble at MGM and NYNY and Bellagio using set dice with a controlled throw and in ALL cases I said I was only lucky.

If you want to "pick on" those "types" you see at craps tables, pick on someone else.

But I seriously doubt you're much of a craps player. Dice "setting" means zero. Anyone can "set" the dice. What matters is how you throw (deliver) the set dice. I doubt you know a thing about the physics or science of dice influencing, nor do I think you ever read Sharpshooter's book which would give you a basic start at it.

And back to your comment about me taking time to look down the table: Hindsight is always 20/20. And it only took a second for a dealer to push out the chips for a new player and for the player to reach in -- and that was when I was looking at the dice in front of me. Of course, tree girl, you were there. You saw it. So you know what's right. Yeah, it was all my fault. The player pushing in to a crowded table that was cheering a big roll, and the dealer pushing out chips after the dice were out were not errors or breaks in traditional etiquette? Is that what you're saying?

You are such a whiny baby! You contradict yourself in so many ways.

Well treegirl it comes to this: some people follow etiquette at craps and some people don't. And for those of us who do follow etiquette at craps the entire point is that now at Caesars Palace the dealers have been instructed not to follow etiquette.

So from now on you can buy in when you want to buy in, and the dealers will take your money no matter if the shooter has the dice or not, and the dealers will push chips to you even if the shooter has the dice.

It seems that the days of the stickman's call "dice out, no more bets" is gone... just as Caesars was the first casino to get rid of the boxmen.

That's the bottom line. Call it whiney if you like but it's just another example of how bean counters are destroying tradition.

#1 Agreed - In fact, on a table that wasn't at all busy I've been asked by dealers if I wanted to buy in during a roll. I have taken advantage of this, but it's like waiting for a bartender at a busy bar - have your money ready and make the transaction as quickly as possible. Typically, the stickman will wait a few seconds while this is going on prior to pushing the dice to the shooter - this is more etiquette from the stickman and from what Money is saying, Caesars is now instructing the stickman not to wait.

#2 Exactly. Most veteran players wouldn't think about trying to squeeze in during a hot roll.

#3 Kinda goes along with #1. If you're not disruptive or minimize the disruption, buy in. Whether you choose to start with something other than a Come-out roll is up to the player. I've played from the start but have also waiting until the next Come-out roll.

#4 Long term, there is no correlation. Most craps players are playing for the moment and looking for the table to get "hot". If other players or dealers do not follow the traditional rules of etiquette and a table remains cold or "choppy" it's easy for us superstitious players blame those not following the "rules" - as unwarranted or illogical as it may be. It may come across as arrogant, but someone new to playing craps and without a clue as to how the game is played really have no business playing on a full table that is going well. As stated earlier, it's like a beginner golfer playing on a course that is busy - they just don't belong if they are going to hold things up more than is already the case.

#5 - If the stickman would hold off pushing the dice to the shooter for 20 - 30 seconds it usually won't be an issue. They could casually be flipping the dice around to ensure the shooter is not pushed a 7 and the shooter wouldn't be feeling unduly delayed. However, if at a very busy table and the dealers are all continually on the move between throws due to the amount of chips and bets taking place, to try to squeeze in and throw your money down it may take over a minute to get and retrieve your chips. This type of delay may certainly be frowned upon by players enjoying the rhythm of the table. Again, long term the percentages will play out. For those of us that may not have the opportunity to play often, it's all about the short term.

I will say this, if someone was to buy in during a roll, does it efficiently and starts placing bets like he/she knows what they're doing, it probably won't be an issue.

The original topic is all about the all-mighty dollar. Caesars doesn't want any delays in the game to keep the money flowing into their deep pockets - even if this means not wanting the stickman to delay pushing the dice out by 20 - 30 seconds on the occasion when a shooter is in the middle of a roll and a new player is entering the game.

BillyBuckeye- Your post is 100% correct. Only those with no real knowledge of the history and workings of craps would disagree.

Yes, it probably is ignored most of the time, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Early on -- and I'm talking about more than 20 years ago -- I was instructed to wait to buy in. I was told that was the right thing, and the proper thing, to do and that's what I do.

Years ago there was an elderly gentleman who was a regular at Caesars. One morning I walked to the craps pit and he was at a table by himself rolling number after number -- and I could see that as I walked towards the table. He stood in the far center position. As I stepped up to SL1 he looked at me and said "please don't buy in now." (I don't know how many passes he had made because this was pre-fire bet, but there were lots of chips on the table -- come bets with odds.) I answered "I never do." And I stood there for the next six or seven minutes as he rolled number after number -- and at a table with him the only player you can imagine how quickly those rolls and payoffs came.

Sure, I could have bought in and with all those numbers he rolled I would have made a lot of money. But what if I had bought it, and bad luck came, and he threw a seven-out? Would it have been my buy in that caused the 7 to appear? No. But why ruin his time? He didn't make another pass but he did throw lots of numbers while I waited patiently.

Wait patiently, it's the right thing to do.

For those of you who talk about the long term -- think about the long term. You can wait patiently. The game of craps is not going away. You will have your turn. That is the right thing to do.

It's also the right thing to do to have a boxman so the game keeps moving. When Caesars eliminated the boxmen it had the dealers handle the buyins and that delayed the game. Now, because Caesars probably realized that the dealers handling the buyins delayed the game has instituted new rules about keeping the games going to make up for its boxman mistake.

So while the dealers might no longer be allowed to follow the etiquette of the game, it doesn't mean the players don't have to follow the etiquette of the game.

"Craps etiquette"?

I've visited literally hundreds of "casino's". I used to, and still will on occasion, take and read the cards, leaflets, tri-folds, etc available on casino table games or from the pit crews. Poker rooms often have thick rule books which they allow you to read, but not take. I like to consider myself informed, and keep up with rules, payoffs, etc.

In all my years visiting casino's, I have never, ever seen any publication dealing with "craps etiquette". Nor, to my knowledge, do the rules of the NGC dealing with craps & dice cover this topic.

Emily Post has not written about it in her guide to etiquette either.

While I agree it may be courteous to wait, or ask before joining a table game, a customer is not required too. Many times I've seen people ask a single player at BJ, "Do you mind if I join now?" and also at crap tables.

IMHO, those customers were being courteous. But there is no written "etiquette", nor should there be.