There you go conservatives: Obamacare is failing

Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Some folks just don't understand that they're really getting a better policy, . . . really !
No, . . . . REALLY ! ! !

Item 1:
"The [Dean] Griffins..."

Item 2:
"Ken Davis..."

Item 3:
"Philip Johnson..."
Interest claims you have there, with little discussion of actual coverage differences.

But what happens when a trusted third party actual investigates the details of each policy. Say..



"Didn't know about major financial help. A retired woman living on $20,400 in Social Security survivor’s benefits said she was struggling to afford her $541 retiree health plan. She said the plans she's seen that are available through her state’s Health Insurance Marketplace would be even more expensive, with worse coverage.

REALITY: At her income level, she’ll not only be entitled to a hefty subsidy that will bring her premium down to about $90 a month, she’ll also get a major reduction in her out-of-pocket costs.

Believed misleading info from insurance company. [My personal note: Wait! Misleading information from an insurance company???? Whoever heard of such a thing? That is absolutely unpossible!!!!] A California freelancer was irate that her insurance company was discontinuing her existing, zero-deductible plan and replacing it with a plan with a higher premium and much higher out-of-pocket costs. “It’s sad the way this is working out for some moderate-income people,” she said.

REALITY: I plugged her age, ZIP code, and income ($35,000) into the plan preview feature of Covered California, the state-run marketplace (which is up and running, by the way). Turns out that with her subsidy, she can buy a plan from the same carrier for $134 a month less than what she’s paying now. The deductible is comparable to the replacement plan she was offered but the copays are similar to those of her current plan, and most of the services she’s likely to need aren’t subject to the deductible anyway, such as doctor visits, generic drugs, lab tests, and hospital care.

Unaware of CHIP eligibility. A dad from Washington state lamented that he and his four kids are caught in the infamous family glitch. His wife pays nothing for her own coverage through her job, but to add the rest of the family costs $1,600 a month, which eats up nearly a fifth of their $80,000 annual income. Yet because of the glitch, they can’t get subsidies to buy coverage on the Washington Healthplanfinder (another state-run marketplace that's working fine).

REALITY: I ran this family’s numbers through HealthLawHelper.org. It turns out all four kids are eligible for health coverage through Apple Health, the state’s CHIP program, for a total cost of less than $100 a month. As a matter of fact, they can enroll right now and not have to wait until Jan. 1. The dad can then compare his wife’s plan and unsubsidized marketplace plans to see which suits his needs and pocketbook better. A 45-year-old can buy an unsubsidized Group Health Silver plan with a $1,500 deductible for $404 a month on the marketplace.
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: BobOrme
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot and now only 3% of Americans are being forced to buy health insurance plans that are much better than their expiring joke plans that don't cover anything?

Pure bullshit in more ways than one. 3% isn't even close, and the product they're being forced to buy isn't what they need. It is what the government and the product needs. This isn't about healthcare. It is about money.
BobOrme, Chil makes a claim and provides an actual link, and you make a counter claim and don't provide a source of any kind. And you do this sort of thing over and over, and I think I've figured out why.

I bet you are just too embarrassed to identify your sources.


Coot provided an opinion driven pie chart that is not verifiable with real world results. That's not a "link" to reality. I provided Obama administration federal register information...even included the page number. DonDiego provided a link to the same pages that show how much the administration knew more than three years ago...
Actually, everyone paying attention knew that junk insurance was going to become illegal three years ago. Including Dick Cheney's ol' fishing buddy:


Then why did Obama continue to lie about it for years?

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Originally posted by: forkushVAnd the source for your "3% claim?" I must have missed it.

I didn't claim "only 3% of Americans are being forced to buy health insurance plans that are much better than their expiring joke plans that don't cover anything?", Coot did. I said it would be much larger than 3%.
Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Some folks just don't understand that they're really getting a better policy, . . . really !
No, . . . . REALLY ! ! !

Item 1:
"The [Dean] Griffins..."

Item 2:
"Ken Davis..."

Item 3:
"Philip Johnson..."
Interest claims you have there, with little discussion of actual coverage differences.

But what happens when a trusted third party actual investigates the details of each policy. Say..



"Didn't know about major financial help. A retired woman living on $20,400 in Social Security survivor’s benefits said she was struggling to afford her $541 retiree health plan. She said the plans she's seen that are available through her state’s Health Insurance Marketplace would be even more expensive, with worse coverage.

REALITY: At her income level, she’ll not only be entitled to a hefty subsidy that will bring her premium down to about $90 a month, she’ll also get a major reduction in her out-of-pocket costs.

Believed misleading info from insurance company. [My personal note: Wait! Misleading information from an insurance company???? Whoever heard of such a thing? That is absolutely unpossible!!!!] A California freelancer was irate that her insurance company was discontinuing her existing, zero-deductible plan and replacing it with a plan with a higher premium and much higher out-of-pocket costs. “It’s sad the way this is working out for some moderate-income people,” she said.

REALITY: I plugged her age, ZIP code, and income ($35,000) into the plan preview feature of Covered California, the state-run marketplace (which is up and running, by the way). Turns out that with her subsidy, she can buy a plan from the same carrier for $134 a month less than what she’s paying now. The deductible is comparable to the replacement plan she was offered but the copays are similar to those of her current plan, and most of the services she’s likely to need aren’t subject to the deductible anyway, such as doctor visits, generic drugs, lab tests, and hospital care.

Unaware of CHIP eligibility. A dad from Washington state lamented that he and his four kids are caught in the infamous family glitch. His wife pays nothing for her own coverage through her job, but to add the rest of the family costs $1,600 a month, which eats up nearly a fifth of their $80,000 annual income. Yet because of the glitch, they can’t get subsidies to buy coverage on the Washington Healthplanfinder (another state-run marketplace that's working fine).

REALITY: I ran this family’s numbers through HealthLawHelper.org. It turns out all four kids are eligible for health coverage through Apple Health, the state’s CHIP program, for a total cost of less than $100 a month. As a matter of fact, they can enroll right now and not have to wait until Jan. 1. The dad can then compare his wife’s plan and unsubsidized marketplace plans to see which suits his needs and pocketbook better. A 45-year-old can buy an unsubsidized Group Health Silver plan with a $1,500 deductible for $404 a month on the marketplace.



Oh yea, I beleive there are some good things, no great things about the law, only the part where people are required to buy insurance on the exchanges. That's flat out wrong, I would think you would agree.

J
Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Give us more of that "Words Matter" lecture. I loved that one.


A description of The Ministry of Truth of Oceania-from wikipedia
The Ministry of Truth is involved with news media, entertainment, the fine arts and educational books. Its purpose is to rewrite history to change the facts to fit Party doctrine for propaganda effect. For example, if Big Brother makes a prediction that turns out to be wrong, the employees of the Ministry of Truth go back and rewrite the prediction so that any prediction Big Brother previously made is accurate.

The employees continually revise or destroy all the newspapers, books, etc., etc. to insure Big Brother is recognized as infallible.

Seem familiar?
Perhaps this video from New York Magazine will clarify things. [The Ministry of truth has not incinerated it, . . . yet.]

Long Live Big Brother !
Long Live Oceania !


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Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Give us more of that "Words Matter" lecture. I loved that one.


A description of The Ministry of Truth of Oceania-from wikipedia
The Ministry of Truth is involved with news media, entertainment, the fine arts and educational books. Its purpose is to rewrite history to change the facts to fit Party doctrine for propaganda effect. For example, if Big Brother makes a prediction that turns out to be wrong, the employees of the Ministry of Truth go back and rewrite the prediction so that any prediction Big Brother previously made is accurate.

The employees continually revise or destroy all the newspapers, books, etc., etc. to insure Big Brother is recognized as infallible.

Seem familiar?...
Consumer Reports is Big Brother? Who knew?

Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego


Seem familiar?
Perhaps this video from New York Magazine will clarify things. [The Ministry of truth has not incinerated it, . . . yet.]

Long Live Big Brother !
Long Live Oceania !



Your question is if the Obama administration seems familiar to the ministry of truth in Orwell's 1984? My answer: No, not even a little bit - but thanks for asking.


But I'll tell you what is familiar....our little chat on the government shutdown thread.
Government Shutdown Thread
You know - The one where you complained about people who engage in over-the top-hyperbole...and how they can not be taken seriously.

and this was my response which you did not take kindly too...
"we get the privilege of having this "words matter" lecture coming from Don Diego whose favorite way of poking fun at the president is to type sentences in German as some kind of metaphor for a him being a Third Reich dictator...and usually thats coupled with some hyperbolized connection to the society in Orwell's "1984". Perhaps some words matter more than others? "

(I've provided the link before the Newspeak editors rewrite history)











Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
. . . blah, . . .b;ah, . . . blah . . .
But I'll tell you what is familiar....our little chat on the government shutdown thread.
Government Shutdown Thread
You know - The one where you complained about people who engage in over-the top-hyperbole...and how they can not be taken seriously.

and this was my response which you did not take kindly too...
"we get the privilege of having this "words matter" lecture coming from Don Diego whose favorite way of poking fun at the president is to type sentences in German as some kind of metaphor for a him being a Third Reich dictator...and usually thats coupled with some hyperbolized connection to the society in Orwell's "1984". Perhaps some words matter more than others? "

(I've provided the link before the Newspeak editors rewrite history)

i.On the Nonexistent Metaphor

DonDiego has already responded (in his post of 10/5/13 3:54PM LVAT, item 3) to pjstroh's objection to "poking fun" at President Obama in the thread linked by pjstroh.
The only item which DonDiego "did not take kindly to" was the suggestion that DonDiego employed German to associate President Obama to the Third Reich.

That is because pjstroh's assertion is false.

As he already responded DonDiego never intended his use of German as a metaphor for President Obama being a Third Reich dictator. In a different (now deleted?) thread another poster had said something about foreign languages and DonDiego responded with a witticism in German addressing the relative importance of the German language and the Chinese language to modern Americans.
__There was no reference to President Obama.
__There was no reference to the Third Reich.
__There was no metaphor for anything.


ii. On the prescience of George Orwell's 1984

DonDiego does observe some of the practices of the societies depicted in 1984 filtering into the present institutions, . . . specifically the now ever-present propaganda presented by all sides of the political spectrum, recognizing no good whatsoever in the oppositions position and demonizing those who disagree.
Oh, . . . and the evermore common instance of imagining some insult or metaphor where none is intended, . . . as yet another excuse to attack those with whom one disagrees.

DonDiego recommends Mr. Orwell's novel to all thoughtful readers, . . . now more than ever as modern technologies would make the evils of such a nation-state much easier to impose/maintain.
What with their seeming occupation with the newest toys of the ever-present electronic media, DonDiego wonders if members of the up-and-coming generations still discuss such books in senior high school or college. He hopes so.

Oh, . . . and Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged depicts the ever expending, ever more corrupt influences of a gargantuan government bureaucracy on American Society. DonDiego sure hopes it never happens here. But at over 1000 pages it's a tough slog, . . . maybe the interested reader can find a Cliffs Notes version.



I never once mentioned any specific thread. I mentioned your general behavior...which you've once again put on display in this thread with some really rational, non-inflamatory comparisons between the Obama Administration and the brainwashed-police-state in Orwells 1984....just like I originally described and Don Diego denied.

And on a recent (now deleted thread) Don Diego used some entertaining German-speak to describe the actions of the Administration. Alas, the LVA ministry of truth has since removed it.

For the record, such comparisons dont bother me in the slightest. I'm just continually amused by noting how the standards Don Diego holds everyone else accoutable to dont seem to ever apply to him.
Quick, someone get DonDiego a fainting couch.

Because it turns out that some of those insurance company rate increase letters have been intentionally misleading. And illegal. And it has happened thousands of times, in Kentucky alone. Insurance companies misleading their customers? Who ever heard of such a thing?


(Louisville) courierjournal.com

And some of the policies that Humana quoted were actually more expensive than the subsequent unsubsidized rates Humana was quoting to Obamacare customers, and much more expensive than some subsidized rates. So the next time you read about rate shock based on a letter from an insurance company, just remember DonDiego. Passed out on the fainting couch. You don't want that to be you.
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Originally posted by: forkushV
Quick, someone get DonDiego a fainting couch.

Because it turns out that some of those insurance company rate increase letters have been intentionally misleading. And illegal. And it has happened thousands of times, in Kentucky alone. Insurance companies misleading their customers? Who ever heard of such a thing?


(Louisville) courierjournal.com

And some of the policies that Humana quoted were actually more expensive than the subsequent unsubsidized rates Humana was quoting to Obamacare customers, and much more expensive than some subsidized rates. So the next time you read about rate shock based on a letter from an insurance company, just remember DonDiego. Passed out on the fainting couch. You don't want that to be you.


That's dated spet 24 ,before the law even went into effect. How in the world were they able to be finmed BEFORE it was even law?

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