There you go conservatives: Obamacare is failing

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Originally posted by: forkushV

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Originally posted by: hoops2

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Originally posted by: Chilcoot

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Originally posted by: hoops2
"Cubans justifiably laugh at our outgoing health care system."

But yet they will get on makeshift rafts to come here

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Excellent point.

Even in a nation as god awful as Cuba, and it's definitely god awful, they've managed to develop a healthcare system that has outperforms ours in significant ways. Well put.

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I am sure when chilly gets sick he will fly to Cuba to be healed

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Some Americans have actually committed crimes so that they could get adequate health care in prison hospitals. You must be so proud of your country. And our 51st place in infant mortality: how pro-life!

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Originally posted by: Tutontow
...Can you imagine walking up to your friends and neighbors and reminding them to sign up. Around my neighborhood I had better make sure the ACA covers my dental work if I bring up anything Obama related.

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Originally posted by: Chilcoot

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Originally posted by: BobOrme
No matter how much an individual is responsible for their own life, they are irresponsible because they aren't in a system that YOU choose FOR them.

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Actually, no, there was a system in place that Obamacare replaces. Don't pretend that there isn't an outgoing system that we've all been stuck in. There was, and it sucked.

In that old system, irresponsible people like BobOrme who could afford health insurance but were too cheap and too dumb to get it would get sick or hit by a bus, show up at the emergency room, get lots of expensive treatment, be unable to pay the bill, and go bankrupt, leaving everyone else to shoulder the expense.

I am sick and tired of the BobOrme's of the world shirking their responsibility to pay for their own health care. That's one of the many reasons we passed Obamacare, to get everyone contributing to the care we all expect (even if we won't say so out loud).

(more Coot stuff)

BobOrme, however, doesn't want the responsibility of being his brother's keeper, wants to go it all alone (until he inevitably gets sick and will surely demand we give him care, even though he's not willing to give it to others).

Now maybe BobOrme is fabulously wealthy and can afford the best of care without insurance. I doubt it, he's described himself as a former stock car pit crewmember and a former pool hall manager. All fine occupations, but not the sorts of things that typically lead to great wealth.

But maybe he is crazy rich. Is it really too much to require him to also buy insurance, insurance that (1) will pay for his own care if need be, and (2) contribute towards the care of others.

Sure, maybe he'll live to 100 and never get a cough. But wouldn't he want to be part of a system that can do so much good for the less fortunate, and will replace a health care system that's truly one of the worst in the developed world? Cubans justifiably laugh at our outgoing health care system. Cubans!

Well, apparently for BobOrme, it is too much to ask. Sad, really. Hope you never get sick, Bob, be well.

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Originally posted by: BobOrme

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Originally posted by: Chilcoot

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Originally posted by: BobOrme
No matter how much an individual is responsible for their own life, they are irresponsible because they aren't in a system that YOU choose FOR them.

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Actually, no, there was a system in place that Obamacare replaces. Don't pretend that there isn't an outgoing system that we've all been stuck in. There was, and it sucked.

In that old system, irresponsible people like BobOrme who could afford health insurance but were too cheap and too dumb to get it would get sick or hit by a bus, show up at the emergency room, get lots of expensive treatment, be unable to pay the bill, and go bankrupt, leaving everyone else to shoulder the expense.

I am sick and tired of the BobOrme's of the world shirking their responsibility to pay for their own health care. That's one of the many reasons we passed Obamacare, to get everyone contributing to the care we all expect (even if we won't say so out loud).

(more Coot stuff)

BobOrme, however, doesn't want the responsibility of being his brother's keeper, wants to go it all alone (until he inevitably gets sick and will surely demand we give him care, even though he's not willing to give it to others).

Now maybe BobOrme is fabulously wealthy and can afford the best of care without insurance. I doubt it, he's described himself as a former stock car pit crewmember and a former pool hall manager. All fine occupations, but not the sorts of things that typically lead to great wealth.

But maybe he is crazy rich. Is it really too much to require him to also buy insurance, insurance that (1) will pay for his own care if need be, and (2) contribute towards the care of others.

Sure, maybe he'll live to 100 and never get a cough. But wouldn't he want to be part of a system that can do so much good for the less fortunate, and will replace a health care system that's truly one of the worst in the developed world? Cubans justifiably laugh at our outgoing health care system. Cubans!

Well, apparently for BobOrme, it is too much to ask. Sad, really. Hope you never get sick, Bob, be well.

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You make numerous assumptions and use them to personally attack people. ...not unexpected from someone blinded by ideology.

I first had FICA withholding taken from my paychecks in 1968 when I was 16-years-old. Somewhat ironic to this discussion is, that job was washing dishes and delivering meals in a hospital. That wasn't my first job. I threw newspapers for three years prior to that job.

I own a small business that I helped start in 1970 with my dad. That business grew while my dad retired. I was paying the employer share of FICA for up to 5 employees. Those matching government benefit payments were on top of paying both sides of my own FICA. But, according to you, I don't/didn't "contribute towards the care of others." I was also paying for 100% of health care insurance for my employees in the 1990's.

I wasn't the manager of a pool hall. I found a suitable building, signed a lease on it, remodeled the interior, bought 6 pool tables, bought associated needed furniture, glassware, food service plates and silverware, kitchen utensils like a convention oven and commercial meat slicer, liquor stock and had plumbing for beer taps, soda guns and refrigerated feed lines installed. I employed 8 people in that business, paying the matching FICA for all of them. ...but again, I don't/didn't "contribute towards the care of others." I sold that business 6 months after opening it (at a profit) because running two businesses was going to kill me. I'm a hands-on guy and was working 110 hours a week between the two businesses.

I've been a professional poker player. I've done live music production and concert promotion. While I crewed for open-wheel hill climb cars in the 1970's, that was working gratis for racing friends.

I currently make more money in auto racing than I do in the original business that began the summer I graduated from high school, but I still work those two jobs.

I managed to tear my esophagus where it is attached to my stomach a few years back. I was bleeding to death internally. I went to the closest hospital with a trauma center emergency room. I was admitted into Cardiac Care because I had thrown up at least half of the blood in my body before I got there. I spent the next two days in ICU, and another couple days in a semi-private room before being released. I had no insurance. I paid for it out of my own pocket. It took about a year, but nobody's insurance pool funded those bills in any way.

I had surgery performed by a specialist last year. I paid cash for that up front. It was about a third of the cost of the average insured cost for the same procedure. Doctors like cash (who doesn't?). They know they're getting paid and they don't have to pay staff employees to file the insurance paperwork.

I'll qualify for Social Security and Medicare in less than 4 years. I'm an old man Coot. I don't want or need you or Obama or anyone else forcing me to pay any more of my continuously shrinking income to support more people on the public dole. I'm neither cheap nor dumb (words you are fond of tossing around).

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