Vegas Free-for-All - Why do certain groups of young men get shot by the police?

Don

Aug 21, 2014
1:54am

Quote

Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Now as far as the rest of the accusations about the Furguson PD. I would tend to agree with you on their standing from everything I have read so far.
So why is that? These are elected officials or are hired and fired by elected officials. Why do not the majority of the town replace them?

They pr'bly have a Union.

Don

Aug 21, 2014
2:50am

Block User

On Parsing

Words have meaning.

For some reason the word "parsing" is now employed as a criticism that someone is nitpicking.
Definition:
Parse - to analyze (something, as a speech or behavior) to discover its implications or uncover a deeper meaning.
Definition:
Nitpick - to be excessively concerned with or critical of inconsequential details.

DonDiego has nothing against parsing; one can acquire useful insights into what someone has written through parsing. But DonDiego’s comment on forkush’s assertion with regard to justifiable shooting was neither an analysis of deeper meaning nor a criticism of an inconsequential detail.
DonDiego just provided a quote from a judicial authority which contradicted the meaning of what forkushV had posted.

Here is what forkushV wrote:

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
And if your life WASN'T being threatened (nor anyone else's life) - it's murder.

DonDiego responded:

Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
No.
"A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead . . . however . . . Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force."
—Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner

[see note a., below]

In an ensuing post forkushV adjusted his prior comment:

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Obviously if a cop is being charged by someone very large, angry, and possibly wounded, that would a righteous shooting. But if the guy is not a danger to the cop or others and shooting ensues, it's murder.

It seems to poor old DonDiego that:
i. DonDiego did not “analyze [forkushv’s post]to discover its implications or uncover a deeper meaning. He just provided a useful quote from a Supreme Court Justice on The Law - not a nitpick either.
ii. forkushV recognized the difference between "life threatening" and "a threat of serious physical harm".
iii. In the subsequent post forkushV replaced the reference to “life being threatened” with “a danger to the cop or others”, essentially adopting Justice White’s meaning.
iv. Everything is cool.

Note a. Justice White's comment actually was in support of the "Fleeing Felon Rule" which permits the use of force, including deadly force, against an individual who is suspected of a felony and is in clear flight. i.e. If an Officer were to shoot such a suspect in the back, it might still be justifiable.

jatki

Aug 21, 2014
3:09am

Block User

Well..that put that issue to rest! Well said, as usual, DD.

chefantwon

Aug 21, 2014
9:19am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV

Quote
Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
I'm all of 5'11" and if a 6'5" 300 lb guy come rushing at me with the intent of hurting me, the bastard's either going to be dead or crippled for life...
I wouldn't blame you.

But if he wasn't rushing you or others with the intent of hurting you or others, it's murder. Even if you wear a badge. Agreed?

Yes, agreed.

And we are trying the officer in Ferguson in the court of public opinion where he stands acquitted by the evidence presented.

"Stands acquitted?" Oh my, now who's using imprecise language? (Don't worry Cowboy, I don't subscribe to DonDiego parsing to avoid the truth strategy.)

Of course it may have been a righteous shooting. But the Ferguson PD is a cesspool.

Their own stats prove they racially profile to an astonishing state. The police chief came up with three different versions- and it wasn't a "fog of war" mistake - he just came up with different versions of the incident. They still haven't released the incident report. They let the cop leave the crime scene with his car - an actual part of the crime scene. They still haven't released the cop's medical report. Hiding their badge numbers and names. Threatening to kill unarmed protesters. Pointing weapons at unarmed protesters. Arresting journalists without basis and targeting them with tear gas. And verbally threateing to kill one. Dismantling video equipment. Playing occupying force in their army surplus gear. And the list goes on, doesn't it?

You are talking like ALL of the protestors were being peaceful and just marching, not looting stores and rioting.

They were rioting and looting.

You are forgetting the mob mentality that has been present and people like Al Sharpton and the folks that came to cause trouble. Mob mentality is VASTLY different from the average person on the street. All protesting for that little boy who didn't do nothing wrong....

Mobs are a cops worse nightmare come to life as they can turn violent in a heartbeat for no reason at all.

alanleroyII

Aug 21, 2014
10:11am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV

Their own stats prove they racially profile to an astonishing state. The police chief came up with three different versions- and it wasn't a "fog of war" mistake - he just came up with different versions of the incident. They still haven't released the incident report. They let the cop leave the crime scene with his car - an actual part of the crime scene. They still haven't released the cop's medical report. Hiding their badge numbers and names. Threatening to kill unarmed protesters. Pointing weapons at unarmed protesters. Arresting journalists without basis and targeting them with tear gas. And verbally threateing to kill one. Dismantling video equipment. Playing occupying force in their army surplus gear. And the list goes on, doesn't it?

Those guys have nothing on Fresno PD when it comes to shooting suspects. Before this incident, has a Ferguson PD officer shot anyone ever???

We have 25 officers still on the force who have been involved in MULTIPLE shootings in the last 3 years. One was good for 4. Many for 3. We've had unarmed suspects....shot...in the back. Homeless people beaten, mentally ill guy with a plastic toy gun killed. Plenty of 'Death By Cops' and shootouts with gangsters. Every incident has been judged justified. Never any public record of any investigation details.

A couple of years ago, they cornered a car jacking suspect at a 7/11. The FPD fired 80 shots from close range at the car in under a minute. Neither the suspect nor his innocent girlfriend in the front seat were hit.

It can be a rough town with a lot of gang activity. I know many of the policemen here and I couldn't do that job, but it's almost like we've gotten used to shootouts. At least the crime rate is down.

albeadle33

Aug 21, 2014
10:56am

Block User

This entire issue is hardly confusing. If the cop shot the punk while he was in the "universal surrender" hands-up position, then he's guilty of manslaughter at the very least. This scenario would also corroborate what Brown's thug friend who robbed the store with him, said. So, what are the chances that he was telling the truth and the cop murdered Brown? About slim to none. What a laugh. Brown's friend ought to be arrested for living.

But wait! The cop was severely beaten, and Brown's thug friend didn't mention that. I wonder why. Could it be that when Brown (aka, good little boy) finished beating the cop and was suddenly told to freeze, good little boy didn't like that so he turned, charged back at the cop, and got what he deserved (and what the rest of us should all be thankful for, since this punk won't be around to bully and hurt anyone else ever again)?

Case closed. Except that racist Eric Holder is pressing for a prosecution.

hoops2

Aug 21, 2014
11:36pm

Block User

"Playing occupying force in their army surplus gear. And the list goes on, doesn't it?"

forky has yet to answer what the proper attire is for police at a riot. All the gunfire came from the rioters as well as the rocks & molotov cocktails. What about all the stores that were destroyed? Most of the people arrested were from out of town & were obviously there to cause trouble

jatki

Aug 22, 2014
7:23am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
"Playing occupying force in their army surplus gear. And the list goes on, doesn't it?"

forky has yet to answer what the proper attire is for police at a riot. All the gunfire came from the rioters as well as the rocks & molotov cocktails. What about all the stores that were destroyed? Most of the people arrested were from out of town & were obviously there to cause trouble

I've been waiting for that answer as well, it was a good query. However I doubt we'll get any sort of straight answer, if we do it'll have that good ol' forkster spin on it.

Boilerman

Aug 22, 2014
9:33am

Block User

You will get a straight answer from Forkie. It'll begin, "What about when George Bush was in office and.........."

Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99

Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
"Playing occupying force in their army surplus gear. And the list goes on, doesn't it?"

forky has yet to answer what the proper attire is for police at a riot. All the gunfire came from the rioters as well as the rocks & molotov cocktails. What about all the stores that were destroyed? Most of the people arrested were from out of town & were obviously there to cause trouble

I've been waiting for that answer as well, it was a good query. However I doubt we'll get any sort of straight answer, if we do it'll have that good ol' forkster spin on it.

forkushV

Aug 22, 2014
1:52pm

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
"Playing occupying force in their army surplus gear. And the list goes on, doesn't it?"

forky has yet to answer what the proper attire is for police at a riot...

A "riot?" How about a "murderous rampage?"

In the thirteen days since the killing, their have been about twenty legitimate arrests, mostly for burglary or possession of burglary tools. About 90% of the arrests have been either for "refusal to disperse - that is, PEACEFULLY protesting, or curfew violations, or for being a journalist.

1.5 arrests a day doesn't make for much of a riot, does it? Or a murderous rampage.

And the Ferguson Power Rangers first donned their gear in response to a peaceful protest demonstration. That is an utterly discredited tactic, because if you want to incite some of the fringe elements in a crowd, just make like an inhuman anonymous occupying force.

Incidentally, according to Ferguson's own police statistics, they profile black for stops and searches way out of proportion to the likelihood they are carrying contraband, or their proportion of the population. And racially profiling is illegal. So a lot of the Ferguson criminals are wearing badges, aren't they?

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