Vegas Free-for-All - As Predicted: Obamacare Has Higher Than Average Out of Pocket Costs

As Predicted: Obamacare Has Higher Than Average Out of Pocket Costs

malibber2

Sep 28, 2013
9:44am

I don't think I am as optimistic as you. I suspect they will just rig the game more aggressively. They can already loose the popular vote in the House by as much as 7% and still retain control of the House. In any event I am not sure it matters so much anymore Republicans are at least honest about their objectives and wanting to serve as the agents of the very wealthy and Corporate America. Democrats on the other hand lie to you and tell you they are for the little guy, but when you put them in power they constantly screw you for the sake of the wealthy and Corporate America. It's sort of like Republicans come up with a plan on some issue and you find out damn that's really going to hurt when the screw you, but then Democrats say hold on just a minute we are going to insist that they use lube. Then the debate rages on for months if they are going use lube and how much they are going to use if they do use it. That is really the best we get anymore.

I find the political theater around Obama Care to be bizarre. Obama passes the Heritage Foundation's health care plan as first implemented by Mitt Romney and it is Communism coming to America according to most Republicans on the other hand Democrats claim that suddenly this same plan that they criticized and even laughed at for years is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Originally posted by: forkushV

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Originally posted by: malibber2
...If they had a lick of sense they would just let this go...

GOP officeholders can't do that, because Republican primary voters tend to be old, bitter, and ready to label the health policies of Barack Obama and Bob Dole and Gov. Mitt Romney as Communism.

But there is good news. Actuaries tell us that a lot of these Republican primary voters will be deceased very soon, and they are being replaced by much better human beings who have no memory of the shameful "Red Scare," and in addition, are less likely to be bigoted against people based on race, sexual orientation, or religion. And many of them speak more than one language!

This is a good thing.

Don

Sep 28, 2013
10:17am

Block User

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Originally posted by: forkushV

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Originally posted by: malibber2
...If they had a lick of sense they would just let this go...

Poor old DonDiego detects bigotry against old, bitter Republicans.

Außer Deutsch und Englisch, was Sprache ist hilfreich? Vielleicht, Chinesisch.

Number51

Sep 28, 2013
12:40pm

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Originally posted by: DonDiego

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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: malibber2
...If they had a lick of sense they would just let this go...
GOP officeholders can't do that, because Republican primary voters tend to be old, bitter, and ready to label the health policies of Barack Obama and Bob Dole and Gov. Mitt Romney as Communism.

But there is good news. Actuaries tell us that a lot of these Republican primary voters will be deceased very soon, and they are being replaced by much better human beings who have no memory of the shameful "Red Scare," and in addition, are less likely to be bigoted against people based on race, sexual orientation, or religion. And many of them speak more than one language!

This is a good thing.

Poor old DonDiego detects bigotry against old, bitter Republicans.

Außer Deutsch und Englisch, was Sprache ist hilfreich? Vielleicht, Chinesisch.

So haters hate being hated? Irony is so ironic.

The German thing would have been awesome 20 years ago. These days not so much, what with Google Translate and all.

Jaribu kuacha kuwa hivyo umri na uchovu.

BobOrme

Sep 28, 2013
12:55pm

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Originally posted by: stg200 It is very interesting that the Republicans never can tell you their replacement plan for ACA.

No. The mainstream media is so in Obama's back pocket that low information folks like you don't know anything about the Republican alternative(s).

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Originally posted by: stg200 That is because "Obamacare" basically was their health care plan they pushed for over a decade. So basically Obama compromised with Republicans by tweaking their plan. The individual mandates and exchanges? All developed by the Republicans (and the Heritage Foundation) as was 80 to 90% of the final legislation.

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank. It is not Congress that writes and proposes legislation. I find it incredible that liberals now know what the Heritage Foundation plan included without knowing what Obamacare, shoved down the collective throats of all Americans, included before the bill was passed and signed into law. ...and we still don't know what it includes because it hasn't stopped growing. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that the "Heritage plan" was ever introduced on the floors of either house of Congress. Obamacare is 80% to 90% of Republican developed legislation?!? Show me and everyone else the over-10,000 pages of laws and regulations that were part and parcel of the "Republican" plan that "they pushed for over a decade". Show me were Heritage wrote that failure to buy health care insurance would be punishable by being fined by the IRS. What you are trying to do is deflect responsibility from the coming train wreck to people that had absolutely nothing to do with its implementation. IOW, we passed it but it was their idea. Democrats own this train wreck. Blaming someone else for what they do or did is typical of Democrats. ...especially Obama.

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Originally posted by: stg200 As for why there were no Republicans on board(although I think there was at least 1, Olympia Snow I think.)? Mitch McConnell stated almost immediately that his side would work to make Obama a one term President. This seems to include abandoning the health care plan they championed as the alternative to "Hillary Care" and at one point filibustering himself.

Again, show me exactly what health care plan Congressional Republicans "championed" that was the Heritage plan. There were many things that could have been done to fix problems in this nation's health care system and some of them were brought to the floor in Congress by Republicans - tort reform and interstate open free market competition between insurance companies are just two. Fix what was wrong piece-by-piece. A government take over of such a huge part of the economy that includes exemptions for compliance for special groups like government employees (some of them in charge of enforcing the laws), some unions (AFL/CIO wants out now after seeing what happens to them) and one particular religion should have been a huge red flag before Obamacare was ever passed and signed into law by Obama. But then again, according to you, this was what Republicans wanted for years....and its implementation and resulting economic disaster WILL BE THE FAULT OF THE PEOPLE WHO AGAINST IT, NOT THOSE WHO VOTED FOR IT!

BobOrme

Sep 28, 2013
2:02pm

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Originally posted by: malibber2 However, it seems they have decided to blow up the government again which means it is unlikely they will regain power any time soon.

They (Republicans) would rather shut down the government than compromise. That's the Democrat party line this weekend. Obama says he will not compromise. He will not negotiate with Republicans. He will veto the House bill. But, that isn't his fault. Nothing ever is.

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Originally posted by: malibber2 If they had a lick of sense they would just let this go and let people see how terrible it truly is and people would be begging for them to repeal it.

At first people may like the cheap insurance, but once a critical mass actually has used it and are left holding the bag for these massive catastrophic deductibles, co-insurance and co-pays they aren't going to be too happy.

I usually have real problems with suggestions that propose allowing people to be genuinely hurt by government legislation so others will somehow learn a lesson. In this case I agree with you. Obama has selectively delayed portions of this law by executive order. He doesn't want all people to see the disaster that it is. The real effects need to be felt by everyone now! The House delay provision was not only stupid, it played right into Obama's game plan.

malibber2

Sep 28, 2013
2:07pm

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Again, show me exactly what health care plan Congressional Republicans "championed" that was the Heritage Foundation.

Well the current crop of congressional Republicans didn't champion it, because Obama adopted it, but the foundation of Obamacare (the mandate) can be traced back to the Heritage Foundation.
ROMNEY: Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.
GINGRICH: That’s not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.
ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.
GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.
ROMNEY: And you never supported them?
GINGRICH: I agree with them, but I’m just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasn’t true.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?
GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.
ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?
ROMNEY: Oh, OK. That’s what I’m saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.
GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.
ROMNEY: OK.

Video Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X61J-5sW288

The plan was introduced in a 1989 book, “A National Health System for America” by Stuart Butler and Edmund Haislmaier.

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We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items.

I don't know about you, but to me it sounds a hell of a lot like Obama care.

As far as tort reform we passed that under GW Bush the premiums unsurprisingly never came down and indeed kept going up.

That buying over state lines crap is well crap. There are only a few large companies that offer healthcare polices in the US and they sell polices in all the states they want to. There are no small insurance companies being held back from selling polices nationally. Indeed health insurance policies are rated on the demographics of a particular zip code. Even if they were allowed to sell across state lines they wouldn't because they don't really want to.

What the across state line things is propaganda by the Insurance industry and what they really want is to start a bidding war among the states to see which state will allow them to screw their customers the hardest. Once the winner of that race to the bottom is determined all the Insurance companies would move their nominal headquarters to that state and proceed to screw their customers.

What it would mean for the consumer is that same policy from that same company you bought for years would now be governed by the laws of another state. So if you had a problem with the policy instead of going to your State Department of Insurance in say California you would have to hop on a plane and go to the State Department of Insurance in say Maine. You already can't sue an Insurance company even if they blatantly screw you because of ERISA which passed in 1974. Now they are wanting to cut off the only partly remedy you do have the Department of Insurance in the State you live in.

I usually have real problems with suggestions that propose allowing people to be genuinely hurt by government legislation so others will somehow learn a lesson. In this case I agree with you. Obama has selectively delayed portions of this law by executive order. He doesn't want all people to see the disaster that it is. The real effects need to be felt by everyone now! The House delay provision was not only stupid, it played right into Obama's game plan.

On this we totally agree.

BobOrme

Sep 28, 2013
2:34pm

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Originally posted by: forkushV But there is good news. Actuaries tell us that a lot of these Republican primary voters will be deceased very soon

The death of people who disagree with you is good news to you. Nice.

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Originally posted by: forkushV and they are being replaced by much better human beings who have no memory of the shameful "Red Scare,"

Nikita was just kidding when he was banging his shoe on the table at the UN declaring "we will bury you".

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Originally posted by: forkushV and in addition, are less likely to be bigoted against people based on race, sexual orientation, or religion.

In contrast to the followers and/or supporters of radical Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood, like Obama, Kerry and Clinton.

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Originally posted by: forkushV And many of them speak more than one language!

Yeah. They can say "gimme food stamps and a free cell phone" when they press "2" on their friend's free cell phone.

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Originally posted by: forkushV This is a good thing.

Soros would agree. Castro would agree. Chavez would agree. Bin Laden would agree. Marx would agree.

jatki

Sep 28, 2013
5:02pm

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Originally posted by: forkushV

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Originally posteda by: malibber2
...If they had a lick of sense they would just let this go...

Damn forkie,you come up with some pretty "out there" bs, but this is some pretty F'd up stuff.

J

alexlifeson

Sep 28, 2013
6:17pm

Block User

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Originally posted by: jatki99

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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posteda by: malibber2
...If they had a lick of sense they would just let this go...
GOP officeholders can't do that, because Republican primary voters tend to be old, bitter, and ready to label the health policies of Barack Obama and Bob Dole and Gov. Mitt Romney as Communism.

But there is good news. Actuaries tell us that a lot of these Republican primary voters will be deceased very soon, and they are being replaced by much better human beings who have no memory of the shameful "Red Scare," and in addition, are less likely to be bigoted against people based on race, sexual orientation, or religion. And many of them speak more than one language!

This is a good thing.

Damn forkie,you come up with some pretty "out there" bs, but this is some pretty F'd up stuff.

J

Jatki, if this were a sitcom then we would have a new leader in the category of sitcom kook. I am fascinated with the White Guilt view of the perfect liberal utopia. Will banishing Christianity while bending over for Muslims be an example of not being bigoted against religion? In the attempt to eliminate white racists, do they have any clue that other ethnic groups are racist? I really don't know if they have a clue or they just choose to ignore it. Good luck in your quest of getting rid of the Republicans and very good luck in stopping the Chinese or the Muslims from taking total control within 100 years. Who would stop them? I'm not interested in getting rid of Liberals. Actually, I find hippies to be amusing at times. Watching hippies in their natural habitat (pot farms, health food stores (including organic foods), yoga classes, protests like occupy wall street, and certain music festivals) is like a real life nature show. It's better than the zoo.

Don

Sep 28, 2013
9:17pm

Block User

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Originally posted by: Number51
Poor old DonDiego detects bigotry against old, bitter Republicans.

Außer Deutsch und Englisch, was Sprache ist hilfreich? Vielleicht, Chinesisch.

DonDiego is not so quick to hate as Number51 suggests. So far as he can recall he has never hated anyone on LVA. He disagrees with many folks; that is not sufficient cause to hate.

Oh, . . . DonDiego Googled "Jaribu kuacha kuwa hivyo umri na uchovu".
Google replied: "Did you mean: Jaribu kuficha kuwa hivyo umri na uchovu."
DonDiego supposes that Number51 is correct; "kuacha" makes more sense, especially in context.

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