No more craps etiquette at Caesars Palace

A lot of Craps Dealers and Pit Bosses are degenerate gamblers themselves who believe in hot rollers and karma and all kinds of dice superstitions. Maybe that fits into #4. Maybe it deserves its own category.

It's more likely that they have done a study and found that pushing the dice when the bets are set and dishing out chips for cash at every opportunity gets X more money in the game and over time provides Y more profits to the casino. Of course the study probably didn't include the Z more pissed off customers.

Don't hold your breath.

As a former dice dealer (17 years), I feel I have to weigh in on this. I don't think any of you have read the first sentence. "The dealers have been instructed....". This means that management has ordered them to deal the game this way. If they don't they get written up, suspended, then fired. If the players have anyone to bitch at, start with the floor people, pit boss, the casino manager and maybe your host. Tell them if they keep running the game this way, you'll take your business somewhere else. Don't blame the dealers for something they have no control over.

Ray

DonDiego is not surprised that this incident was observed at Caesars Palace.

It is widely believed that the Fall of the Roman Empire began with the decline of etiquette at the gaming tables . . .


. . . and ended with the Roman Forum in ruins.



DonDiego suggests it is time for Americans to become proficient in agrarian abilities and prepare for a more pastoral lifestyle.

I've read some of the replies to your post on your website. The guy that makes the comment about "tossing them a fastball" if they have their hands in the layout is not funny. In the 17+ years I dealt the game, I was hit in the eye four times. Four times. I'm not kidding. One time a guy hit me in the eye when I was on the stick after the box man told me to tell him to throw the dice down the middle of the table. I had to wear an eye patch for three days and I missed two days of work because of it. I was then offered a pair of safety glasses to wear on the game. I guess I wore them on the game for about 8 or 9 years before I quit. And if you are going to ask, I was hit while wearing them.

When I was on the stick, I always called out "dice are out" when I started moving them. If there were late betters on the game, I called out "hands high, dice fly". If that still didn't do any good, before I moved the dice I called out "watch your hands when the dice leave the middle" while looking at the offender. That usually did the trick. By then, they usually got the hint. If it didn't, I'd just "no bet" them.

Ray

Is Caesars among the places that no longer have a boxman? The casinos are doing everything in their power to ruin crap games.

That was one of the things I noticed the last time I was in Vegas. Usually, if the game got busy, a floor person would come and sit on the table. One game had seven or eight players on it before someone sat down. If it's a slow table, there's no real need for a box person if you have good dealers.

Ray

Thanks Ray -- that's the way it should be, but it's not now, which was the point in my original post. I was told by the dealers at Caesars that their new "instructions" were to keep the game moving and to keep new money and new bets coming into the game. They are NOT to discourage betting by new players. For those of us who are veteran players this is a new wrinkle and removes some of the basics of craps etiquette.

By the way, several times during my last trip when I approached a table with money in hand dealers would say "throw it in" to buy in -- but I was waiting for the proper time. I do not buy in between points EVER and I usually wait for a new shooter especially if the shooter already has made a couple of Fire Bet passes. Sorry all you "math guys" but I don't want to be the one to screw up his karma.

Regarding my being banned:

Yes, I was booted from MGM, NYNY and Bellagio but I have always had a great time and relationship at Caesars. Caesars allows dice setting and attempts at dice influencing and dice control -- they only ask that you get the dice to the end of the table.

My problems at MGM, NYNY and Bellagio have been well documented and have been archived all over the Internet. MGM, NYNY and Bellagio truly fear attempts at DI and DC.

Here's the thing I could never figure out about casinos. Almost all casinos pay dealers a little over minimum wage. They "expect" their tips from the players to make it worth their while to work there. When I first started dealing, it was when they first opened the riverboats in Illinois. There were shifts where buy in totals were $250,000-$300,000 or more. You know what I was paid by the casino??? $4.50 an hour. After three months, it went to $4.75 (top pay for dealers). Tips did make up for that and I made good money. But here's the thing. Why would you spend so little money on something that is making you so much money? When ever a new casino would open in the area, and I'm talking as far away as Indiana, they would send people to our casino and try to steal the good dealers away. They offered they promotions and better pay and a lot of our best dealers would leave.

Now here's the thing. Our casino got the reputation of being a "Grind House". As we lost the great dealers, they were replaced by dealers brought over from black jack and they were given on the job training. There were times that this brought the game to a screeching halt. This pissed off the higher end players and over time, they starting hitting the other casinos in the area. Tips would drop. Paychecks would go down. A new boat would open, and more good dealers would leave. They had the notion that these employees were easily replaced. Turned out it wasn't true. If they would have given employees a quarter of half a dollar more an hour for every year of service, they would have kept a lot of these good people.

If I owned a casino, I would go out and find the cream of the crop of dealers and pay them a real wage. So what if I'm paying them five dollars more an hour if they're making me a couple thousand more per hour. I'd really be interested in the drop on a busier that average for one of the upper tier crap table in Vegas. I'd be willing to bet that the "drop to pay" ratio for the entire crew comes out 100-1, if not better. Every other business in this country pays top dollar for good employees, why shouldn't casinos?

Ok, rant over.

Ray

Ray

I never knew this about craps. Some people were probably perturbed at my recent play where I strolled up to the table in the middle of a point holding my money. The dealer told me to throw it down. I put my chips on the Come line and the shooter sevened-out. No one was happy for me. I took my winnings and left.